Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 16 Mar 2018, 16:25

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:This statement is inferring that the blacks are victims of violence BECAUSE OF white people, which is not true NOWADAYS. Blacks are now victims of other blacks with a government ruled by blacks. So, where's the racism against blacks today in South Africa?



Are you for real?


Yes, I am.

I know that RSA isn't a safe country and that it has so much potential. Yes, the whites screwed over the blacks for decades under apartheid, which created poverty and misery. It's also important to recognise that the ANC has been in power unchallenged for 24 years. Mandela was an excellent President but his successors were corrupt and incompetent. You know Jacob Zuma, the former President of South Africa once said that "all you have to do to remove AIDS is to have a shower". You think these are the words of a good leader???

The whites are privileged in RSA, but there are some elements within the ANC (a minority, I grant you) that want revenge against them. Ultimately I blame the African National Congress for South Africa's problems currently. You look at the Province of Cape Town, which was ruled by the Democratic Alliance under Helen Zille for years; it was the safest, and economically better off province in South Africa when she was in power. All other Provinces were controlled by the ANC and didn't have an inch on Cape Town Province.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 16 Mar 2018, 18:37

Augie, i suggest you look a bit further into white supremacy in South Africa.

I think there are some big holes in your understanding of the existent power balance.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 16 Mar 2018, 19:32

mothra wrote:Augie, i suggest you look a bit further into white supremacy in South Africa.

I think there are some big holes in your understanding of the existent power balance.


I have no doubt that there are white supremacists; after all the Afrikaaners invented them. Do they hold positions of power? I don't know.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby pinkeye » 17 Mar 2018, 00:56

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:This statement is inferring that the blacks are victims of violence BECAUSE OF white people, which is not true NOWADAYS. Blacks are now victims of other blacks with a government ruled by blacks. So, where's the racism against blacks today in South Africa?



Are you for real?


me thinks you protesteth too much caesaraugustus.

In no way can you say such as that and retain credibility.

So.. you like Mr Dutton, then? Hmmm? Good bloke, slap on the back, nudge nudge... Hmmmm?
You are after all trying to derail the topic by trying hard to yank peoples chains. (excuse the pun :roll )

The fact remains Mr Dutton has clearly shown us what this government is really about. We are talking Fortress Australia. Run by some Home Office. :WTF

HAS Turnbull responded at all? Can't say watching the News at the moment is particularly useful. You don't get much info, and I can barely get time on the net because THE NBN DOESN'T FUCKING WORK.

YOU KNOW the government doesn't have to use the NBN, right.?
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby johnsmith » 17 Mar 2018, 08:55

i notice that in all this the libs have suddenly forgotten about the 'queue' and people jumping it :oops
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 17 Mar 2018, 08:59

pinkeye wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:This statement is inferring that the blacks are victims of violence BECAUSE OF white people, which is not true NOWADAYS. Blacks are now victims of other blacks with a government ruled by blacks. So, where's the racism against blacks today in South Africa?



Are you for real?


me thinks you protesteth too much caesaraugustus.

In no way can you say such as that and retain credibility.

So.. you like Mr Dutton, then? Hmmm? Good bloke, slap on the back, nudge nudge... Hmmmm?
You are after all trying to derail the topic by trying hard to yank peoples chains. (excuse the pun :roll )

The fact remains Mr Dutton has clearly shown us what this government is really about. We are talking Fortress Australia. Run by some Home Office. :WTF

HAS Turnbull responded at all? Can't say watching the News at the moment is particularly useful. You don't get much info, and I can barely get time on the net because THE NBN DOESN'T FUCKING WORK.

YOU KNOW the government doesn't have to use the NBN, right.?


I’m not sure what you mean by ‘you can say such as that and retain credibility...’what exactly did I say ‘such as that’?

Second, I don’t like Dutton; I actually think he’s a sociopath.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Mar 2018, 11:24

Good for you Augie, Dutton IS a sociopath!
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 27 Mar 2018, 11:13

Dutton Offers Asylum To White Cricketers Under Attack In South Africa

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton has announced plans to offer asylum to a small group of Test cricketers who are being persecuted in South Africa.

Mr Dutton said the plan was a logical extension of his humanitarian program, pointing out that the cricketers have specific skills that are highly valued in Australia.

“If you look at the footage and read the stories, you hear the accounts, it’s a horrific circumstance they face.

“We want to give priority to people in our humanitarian intake who qualify as persecuted, but who will also contribute positively to the development of Australia,” Mr Dutton said.

“Sure, Syrians and Iraqi refugees might be living in terrible circumstances, but how many centuries have they scored? We need people who are willing to work hard, who share our values, and who average over 60 in Tests”.

Mr Dutton said the special visas would be offered to entire team except Usman Khawaja.


http://www.theshovel.com.au/2018/03/25/dutton-offers-asylum-to-white-cricketers-under-attack-in-south-africa/
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby pinkeye » 28 Mar 2018, 00:33

:clap :clap :bgrin
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Dax » 28 Mar 2018, 10:55

In a world ruled by ideology (fantasy land beliefs), racism is par for the course. Dutton is a dedicated god nutter, who by definition is an elitist and racist, as all ideologues are. His belief in his superiority is not different to any other ideological nutter of any description, race or faith.

We have to realise world societies are collapsing under the weight of reality, as ideological humanity desperately tries to prop up their delusions as fact and not the fictional stupidity they really are. Logical intelligent humans realise there is nothing to be gained by racism, elitism or ideological beliefs. The only way for us to gain, is to evolve beyond the insanity the majority of humans live within.

People like Dutton, which includes all our politicians, believe if they have enough of their own kind in a society, they can take it over and prove their delusions are real. Because their delusions are not real they never work, in RSA, that is painfully obvious. Yet these fools wish to flood our country with more and more deluded nutters, which white south Africans are and no different to blacks.

No one can hold the ethical high ground in this present era of evolution, whites are as bad a blacks, it's the sophistication of their weapons and numbers that make the difference. Bringing any more people into this country is a recipe for disaster, no matter who they are and every white south African Ive ever met, is an arrogant elitist racist. The few blacks I've met, are no different and just as insane.

Sadly the crazies are in charge of the planet, so the vast majority have put their faith in those leading everyone over the evolutionary cliff.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 28 Mar 2018, 14:47

Dax wrote:In a world ruled by ideology (fantasy land beliefs), racism is par for the course. Dutton is a dedicated god nutter, who by definition is an elitist and racist, as all ideologues are. His belief in his superiority is not different to any other ideological nutter of any description, race or faith.

We have to realise world societies are collapsing under the weight of reality, as ideological humanity desperately tries to prop up their delusions as fact and not the fictional stupidity they really are. Logical intelligent humans realise there is nothing to be gained by racism, elitism or ideological beliefs. The only way for us to gain, is to evolve beyond the insanity the majority of humans live within.

People like Dutton, which includes all our politicians, believe if they have enough of their own kind in a society, they can take it over and prove their delusions are real. Because their delusions are not real they never work, in RSA, that is painfully obvious. Yet these fools wish to flood our country with more and more deluded nutters, which white south Africans are and no different to blacks.

No one can hold the ethical high ground in this present era of evolution, whites are as bad a blacks, it's the sophistication of their weapons and numbers that make the difference. Bringing any more people into this country is a recipe for disaster, no matter who they are and every white south African Ive ever met, is an arrogant elitist racist. The few blacks I've met, are no different and just as insane.

Sadly the crazies are in charge of the planet, so the vast majority have put their faith in those leading everyone over the evolutionary cliff.


First, I would like to say that I agree with you on your assessment of some conservatives. They are actually social engineers (which is something they often accuse the left of doing); they believe they can shape society toward a more utopian (although not completely utopian) structure.

Where I would disagree with you is the idea that 'everyone believes the same thing' or that 'everyone wants the same thing'. This isn't true. People are defined to a certain extent by their culture and values. For example, why do many Islamic women wear the hijab? Even though the item of clothing has mixed symbolism, many still wear it. This is due to culture. Therefore, we must be careful not to fall into the trap of 'moral relativism'.

Now, I'd like to point out that race and culture and two separate and distinct things. One does not infer the other, and to believe is intellectually false.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 28 Mar 2018, 15:17

Dax wrote:We have to realise world societies are collapsing under the weight of reality, as ideological humanity desperately tries to prop up their delusions as fact and not the fictional stupidity they really are. Logical intelligent humans realise there is nothing to be gained by racism, elitism or ideological beliefs. The only way for us to gain, is to evolve beyond the insanity the majority of humans live within.



Que? Ideological beliefs conflict with intelligence and logic?

Perhaps you can expand on what you mean by this?
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 28 Mar 2018, 15:25

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Where I would disagree with you is the idea that 'everyone believes the same thing' or that 'everyone wants the same thing'. This isn't true. People are defined to a certain extent by their culture and values. For example, why do many Islamic women wear the hijab? Even though the item of clothing has mixed symbolism, many still wear it. This is due to culture. Therefore, we must be careful not to fall into the trap of 'moral relativism'.




Okay, you're saying that women wearing head gear are influenced by their culture into wearing a garment that has "mixed symbolism" (i wasn't aware it did, but on i go) and subsequently do not assimilate properly. Yes?

And moral relativism would have us do something crazy like say the full burqa is fine and dandy. Am i following?

So, it logically follows that someone's got some superiority. Not racism, culturalism, innit.

I think very differently from you.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 28 Mar 2018, 21:13

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Where I would disagree with you is the idea that 'everyone believes the same thing' or that 'everyone wants the same thing'. This isn't true. People are defined to a certain extent by their culture and values. For example, why do many Islamic women wear the hijab? Even though the item of clothing has mixed symbolism, many still wear it. This is due to culture. Therefore, we must be careful not to fall into the trap of 'moral relativism'.




Okay, you're saying that women wearing head gear are influenced by their culture into wearing a garment that has "mixed symbolism" (i wasn't aware it did, but on i go) and subsequently do not assimilate properly. Yes?

And moral relativism would have us do something crazy like say the full burqa is fine and dandy. Am i following?

So, it logically follows that someone's got some superiority. Not racism, culturalism, innit.

I think very differently from you.


Yes many Muslims women wear the hijab because it’s cultural (as many say it is).

Second, the hijab has mixed symbolism because whilst many Muslim women choose to wear it, there are many others who are forced to wear it. Also, the hijab in some countries and cultures symbolises purity culture which I believe is anti feminist. It’s like the Union Jack - that is a mixed symbol. It has positive connotations but to indigenous people it’s a symbol of oppression.

Third, I never said that women who wear the hijab do not assimilate. I’m merely saying that they were it due o cultural reasons.

Fourth, yes some cultures are better than others. This has nothing to do with race. For eg, in Saudi Arabia women are treated like second class citizens - I would say that this is an inferior culture to ours, wouldn’t you agree? Or do you support the patriarchy when they’re not ‘white, Christian men’?
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 28 Mar 2018, 21:49

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Fourth, yes some cultures are better than others. This has nothing to do with race. For eg, in Saudi Arabia women are treated like second class citizens - I would say that this is an inferior culture to ours, wouldn’t you agree? Or do you support the patriarchy when they’re not ‘white, Christian men’?



"Better" than? Would you say superior?

Tell me Augie, what do you think cultural relativism is?
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 28 Mar 2018, 22:56

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Fourth, yes some cultures are better than others. This has nothing to do with race. For eg, in Saudi Arabia women are treated like second class citizens - I would say that this is an inferior culture to ours, wouldn’t you agree? Or do you support the patriarchy when they’re not ‘white, Christian men’?



"Better" than? Would you say superior?

Tell me Augie, what do you think cultural relativism is?


Yes it is superior. Do you disagree?

The official definition of cultural relativism is that a person’s beliefs, values and practices should be judged according to their own cultural and not by other criteria.

The perjorative term is used to describe the view that all cultures are equally right and that no culture is worse than another
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Dax » 29 Mar 2018, 05:37

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Where I would disagree with you is the idea that 'everyone believes the same thing' or that 'everyone wants the same thing'. This isn't true. People are defined to a certain extent by their culture and values. For example, why do many Islamic women wear the hijab? Even though the item of clothing has mixed symbolism, many still wear it. This is due to culture. Therefore, we must be careful not to fall into the trap of 'moral relativism'.

Now, I'd like to point out that race and culture and two separate and distinct things. One does not infer the other, and to believe is intellectually false.


There is nowhere in my post where I claim everyone believes the same, or race and culture are the same, that's ridiculous. How you derive that conclusion from my post is beyond me, but may reveal your true understanding.

We have to realise world societies are collapsing under the weight of reality, as ideological humanity desperately tries to prop up their delusions as fact and not the fictional stupidity they really are. Logical intelligent humans realise there is nothing to be gained by racism, elitism or ideological beliefs. The only way for us to gain, is to evolve beyond the insanity the majority of humans live within.

[/quote]

Que? Ideological beliefs conflict with intelligence and logic?

Perhaps you can expand on what you mean by this?[/quote]

Ideological beliefs are the belief in fantasy, delusions and false premises. You can't be intelligent if you believe in a non existent god of war and then claim it is a loving caring god, when all the evidence supports the belief is based and conducted or an elitist war basis. It is illogical to believe a god exists, when scientifically it's impossible and all the evidence they produce is false and easily debunked. Their only viable evidence, is war, history and present day events, proves this.

When ideologues are in control, all we end up with is disaster and war.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 29 Mar 2018, 12:51

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Yes it is superior. Do you disagree?




Not only do i disagree, i object.

I steer very clear of making comments about people's "superiority" or "inferiority". Certainly i criticise thoughts, actions and practices but i keep tremendous distance from making value judgements about people as groups.

I believe it is important to keep in mind that the human experience should not be categorised and placed into a hierarchy. That's where prejudice comes from. All cultures have positive and negative aspects to them. I would like to think we have evolved to the point in which we can absorb the better elements and diminish those shown to be wanting ... all through objective evaluation of all variables.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 29 Mar 2018, 12:59

CaesarAugustus wrote:
The official definition of cultural relativism is that a person’s beliefs, values and practices should be judged according to their own cultural and not by other criteria.

The perjorative term is used to describe the view that all cultures are equally right and that no culture is worse than another



You have misunderstood. Cultural relativism is about not judging from the position of ethnocentricity. Interesting how you've put the onus right where the conservatives want you too ... those now calling themselves culturalists instead of racists, like that's fooling anyone ... and missed entirely it's intended objective.

It's not to say "Oh, that's okay, that's how they do it" at all. It's to draw the critic of the behaviour towards empathy and understanding.

It's nothing more than an academic fleshing out out of walking a mile in another person's shoes.

And you shouldn't need to be told, most effective change begins with understanding.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 29 Mar 2018, 15:03

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Yes it is superior. Do you disagree?




Not only do i disagree, i object.

I steer very clear of making comments about people's "superiority" or "inferiority". Certainly i criticise thoughts, actions and practices but i keep tremendous distance from making value judgements about people as groups.

I believe it is important to keep in mind that the human experience should not be categorised and placed into a hierarchy. That's where prejudice comes from. All cultures have positive and negative aspects to them. I would like to think we have evolved to the point in which we can absorb the better elements and diminish those shown to be wanting ... all through objective evaluation of all variables.


The words superiority and inferiority do have negative connotations to them, so I take your point on this.

Whilst I believe that ‘not all cultures’ are equal, I also believe that no human being is below dignity. Everyone deserves equal legal, social and political rights, and all peoples should be treated as individuals.

The problem is, which I think you have observed, is that many people (if not most) cannot see the grey areas, and are often pulled to both extremes. This is why I believe the left and the youth are very militant in their political correctness because have been and are motivated by speech.

So, when I say superior, please understand that I also know the grey areas.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 29 Mar 2018, 15:16

CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Yes it is superior. Do you disagree?




Not only do i disagree, i object.

I steer very clear of making comments about people's "superiority" or "inferiority". Certainly i criticise thoughts, actions and practices but i keep tremendous distance from making value judgements about people as groups.

I believe it is important to keep in mind that the human experience should not be categorised and placed into a hierarchy. That's where prejudice comes from. All cultures have positive and negative aspects to them. I would like to think we have evolved to the point in which we can absorb the better elements and diminish those shown to be wanting ... all through objective evaluation of all variables.


The words superiority and inferiority do have negative connotations to them, so I take your point on this.

Whilst I believe that ‘not all cultures’ are equal, I also believe that no human being is below dignity. Everyone deserves equal legal, social and political rights, and all peoples should be treated as individuals.

The problem is, which I think you have observed, is that many people (if not most) cannot see the grey areas, and are often pulled to both extremes. This is why I believe the left and the youth are very militant in their political correctness because have been and are motivated by speech.

So, when I say superior, please understand that I also know the grey areas.


Superior, not equal .. you mean the same thing, you're just using softer terminology. Ironically, a trick often lambasted by the right when used by the left ... but they've been doing a lot of it lately.


See, the problem isn't what you call it. It's about the value you attach to it, therefore your judgement ... and comparisons to yourself.

All boils down to the same thing doesn't it.

Just as culturalism and racism boil down to the same thing.

Me? I think the focus is all wrong.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 29 Mar 2018, 15:24

Bump
Last edited by Auggie on 29 Mar 2018, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 29 Mar 2018, 15:26

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Yes it is superior. Do you disagree?




Not only do i disagree, i object.

I steer very clear of making comments about people's "superiority" or "inferiority". Certainly i criticise thoughts, actions and practices but i keep tremendous distance from making value judgements about people as groups.

I believe it is important to keep in mind that the human experience should not be categorised and placed into a hierarchy. That's where prejudice comes from. All cultures have positive and negative aspects to them. I would like to think we have evolved to the point in which we can absorb the better elements and diminish those shown to be wanting ... all through objective evaluation of all variables.


The words superiority and inferiority do have negative connotations to them, so I take your point on this.

Whilst I believe that ‘not all cultures’ are equal, I also believe that no human being is below dignity. Everyone deserves equal legal, social and political rights, and all peoples should be treated as individuals.

The problem is, which I think you have observed, is that many people (if not most) cannot see the grey areas, and are often pulled to both extremes. This is why I believe the left and the youth are very militant in their political correctness because have been and are motivated by speech.

So, when I say superior, please understand that I also know the grey areas.


Superior, not equal .. you mean the same thing, you're just using softer terminology. Ironically, a trick often lambasted by the right when used by the left ... but they've been doing a lot of it lately.


See, the problem isn't what you call it. It's about the value you attach to it, therefore your judgement ... and comparisons to yourself.

All boils down to the same thing doesn't it.

Just as culturalism and racism boil down to the same thing.

Me? I think the focus is all wrong.


Again, I disagree. A racist is a person who believes that another person is inferior because they are of a particular race, without regard for their individuality or personality.

A culturalist (as you call them) is a person who believes that 'not cultures or values systems' are equal to each other. I define this as human and social wellbeing. A culture is inferior if it produces more suffering to greater number of people than another culture. This is what I mean.
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby mothra » 29 Mar 2018, 15:30

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Again, I disagree. A racist is a person who believes that another person is inferior because they are of a particular race, without regard for their individuality or personality.

A culturalist (as you call them) is a person who believes that 'not cultures or values systems' are equal to each other. I define this as human and social wellbeing. A culture is inferior if it produces more suffering to greater number of people than another culture. This is what I mean.


Value systems? LOL! Value to what? Of what? Of what you value?

Think Augie, is there a difference in how you would tell a child to stop doing wrong to how you would tell an adult?
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Re: Could Dutton be more overtly racist?

Postby Auggie » 29 Mar 2018, 15:46

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Again, I disagree. A racist is a person who believes that another person is inferior because they are of a particular race, without regard for their individuality or personality.

A culturalist (as you call them) is a person who believes that 'not cultures or values systems' are equal to each other. I define this as human and social wellbeing. A culture is inferior if it produces more suffering to greater number of people than another culture. This is what I mean.


Value systems? LOL! Value to what? Of what? Of what you value?

Think Augie, is there a difference in how you would tell a child to stop doing wrong to how you would tell an adult?


I don’t understand what that last line has to do with what we’re talking about.

And what is it that I value which you find so abhorrent?

See the first part of your answer is what a cultural relativist would argue - that there is no such thing as ‘shared values’.

Are you saying that that there is no such thing as shared values, that it’s all arbitrary?
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