The Handmaid's Tale

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mothra
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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post by mothra »

Miranda wrote:Few people are immune to the Lucifer effect.


I can't agree with that at all. I think, at worst, most people are bystanders. And whilst pack mentality certainly impels those vulnerable to acts of inhumanity and there are certainly arguments to made for the crime of complicity, i would argue that a statistically equivalent people excel as do succumb to the Lucifer Effect.

I believe it was the wonderful Victor Borge who said Nazi concentration camps brought out the very best and the very worst in people. It's certainly verifiable by every witness account that has spoken of the behavior of others. Certainly Kapos given power were notorious for exploiting it yet there are just as many stories of power used to protect, even at personal risk.I would argue, and i think this plays out in the HT, that the majority are faulted perhaps for tendency to compliance yet extreme behaviour really only comes from the few ... and that tends to be pretty evenly balanced. Ultimately at least.

It's just the weight of the results of the extremes that scream for attention.

But i do not believe that few people are immune to the Lucifer Effect at all. Not to mention, from memory at least, all of the studies cited in that book took place in institutions? That's a whopping great variable, right there.

Furthermore, what needs to considered is why Lydia says she loves the women .. and why some of the architects of Gilead were in fact, women. They truly believe they are doing God's work. That suffering here means reward in the afterlife. Well, those at the top probably don't believe that but the managers sure as hell do. Lydia does, for sure. Sure, she's liberal at handing out punishments and that does speak to the Lucifer Effect, but her motivation doesn't.

People are tremendously complex. It's tricky to assign a universal tendency.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Speaking of similar studies though, my favourite on the topic:

The case revolved around into pack mentality in extreme conditions with sleep deprivation, general exhaustion and alcohol.

A bunch of lumberjacks (forgotten where, wanna say Scandinavia) were off duty after a tremendously long work session. Now these guys worked sun-up to sun down, 7 days a week for months on end doing some of the hardest work you can imagine in the freezing cold.

Anyway, skip to payday and whistle blow. They're all in the pub, drinking copiously and settle into of a game of "Do you know how tough i am?"

Anyway, it escalated quickly with each feat of pain tolerance topping the previous example until one guy, so inspired, cut his leg off with a chainsaw.

Not to outdone, his mat e buzzed off his own head.

Apparently, that snapped them out of it.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Jesus! He cut his leg off? :bgrin

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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HBS Guy wrote:Jesus! He cut his leg off? :bgrin

And then the guy with the head.

Now, i've used a chainsaw a few times. It's not just a slice through. There's resistance. You've got to go at it.

Own leg.

Own head.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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I was trying to make a joke.

If real, that is kinda horrifying.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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HBS Guy wrote:I was trying to make a joke.

If real, that is kinda horrifying.
From memory, it was published in the Lancet. But my memory is hazy.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post by Miranda »

mothra wrote:
Miranda wrote:Few people are immune to the Lucifer effect.


I can't agree with that at all. I think, at worst, most people are bystanders. And whilst pack mentality certainly impels those vulnerable to acts of inhumanity and there are certainly arguments to made for the crime of complicity, i would argue that a statistically equivalent people excel as do succumb to the Lucifer Effect.

I believe it was the wonderful Victor Borge who said Nazi concentration camps brought out the very best and the very worst in people. It's certainly verifiable by every witness account that has spoken of the behavior of others. Certainly Kapos given power were notorious for exploiting it yet there are just as many stories of power used to protect, even at personal risk.I would argue, and i think this plays out in the HT, that the majority are faulted perhaps for tendency to compliance yet extreme behaviour really only comes from the few ... and that tends to be pretty evenly balanced. Ultimately at least.

It's just the weight of the results of the extremes that scream for attention.

But i do not believe that few people are immune to the Lucifer Effect at all. Not to mention, from memory at least, all of the studies cited in that book took place in institutions? That's a whopping great variable, right there.

Furthermore, what needs to considered is why Lydia says she loves the women .. and why some of the architects of Gilead were in fact, women. They truly believe they are doing God's work. That suffering here means reward in the afterlife. Well, those at the top probably don't believe that but the managers sure as hell do. Lydia does, for sure. Sure, she's liberal at handing out punishments and that does speak to the Lucifer Effect, but her motivation doesn't.

People are tremendously complex. It's tricky to assign a universal tendency.
Excellent post.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post by HBS Guy »

2 more eps in 1hr 22 minutes!

Hope to see FIGHT!!!

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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2 more eps? There's only one on the site.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Yeah, and they only aired one. I had assumed they would continue to air and stream two eps. My bad.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Wow, didn’t Serena look different in normal clothes, not the Wive’s uniform!

Geesus—the TV appeal—our baby kidnapped! Not your bloody baby! Does Serena really want Nichole back in Gilead?

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/shivaunefi ... d4768764b0

A bit about Margaret Atwood and The Handmaid’s Tale. Margaret didn’t think things would move so fast and far in the direction of Gilead.

This can go here too:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48275795
May 15, 2019 – Alabama has become the latest US state to move to restrict abortions by passing a bill to outlaw the procedure in almost all cases.
.
Alabama takes another shuffle to their dream of a Handmaid’s Tale future. Theocracy here we come. Yee haw.
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey has signed legislation permitting Briarwood Presbyterian Church to establish its own police force for its church and school campuses.
https://www.apnews.com/c09feda825c441289bf14b996580dfc5

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Shades of Hannibal Lecter!

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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What is gonna happen next episode? Mass gesture of defiance?

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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HBS Guy wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/shivaunefi ... d4768764b0

A bit about Margaret Atwood and The Handmaid’s Tale. Margaret didn’t think things would move so fast and far in the direction of Gilead.

This can go here too:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48275795
May 15, 2019 – Alabama has become the latest US state to move to restrict abortions by passing a bill to outlaw the procedure in almost all cases.
.
Alabama takes another shuffle to their dream of a Handmaid’s Tale future. Theocracy here we come. Yee haw.
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey has signed legislation permitting Briarwood Presbyterian Church to establish its own police force for its church and school campuses.
https://www.apnews.com/c09feda825c441289bf14b996580dfc5
Speaking of Alabama:

Alabama: pregnant woman shot in stomach is charged in fetus's death

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Why on earth would they charge her with murder... There is no evidence!

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Ilyse Hogue, president of Naral Pro-Choice America, tweeted: “Marshae Jones was indicted for homicide when someone shot her in the stomach while she was pregnant, ending her pregnancy. They said she ‘started it.’ The shooter went free. This what 2019 looks like for a pregnant woman of colour without means in a red state. This is now.”
Religion is bloody evil.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post by Miranda »

HBS Guy wrote:
Ilyse Hogue, president of Naral Pro-Choice America, tweeted: “Marshae Jones was indicted for homicide when someone shot her in the stomach while she was pregnant, ending her pregnancy. They said she ‘started it.’ The shooter went free. This what 2019 looks like for a pregnant woman of colour without means in a red state. This is now.”
Religion is bloody evil.
Started what? Started a gun fight?

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Miranda wrote:Why on earth would they charge her with murder... There is no evidence!
Manslaughter, not murder.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post by Miranda »

Yeah, just read the article. Bloody disgraceful. I hope she is found innocent.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Miranda wrote:Yeah, just read the article. Bloody disgraceful. I hope she is found innocent.

Don't hold your breath. Not so long ago, a woman (forget which state) was charged with manslaughter and neglect after the county made her leave her children unattended to travel over 2 hours each way to work full-time for welfare, just to feed them.

There was a fire in her home while she was out. The children died in their beds. She was on a bus, under orders.

This is how the US treats it's poor.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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And we are not far behind!

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post by HBS Guy »

Geez, make the handmaids hang those 3, far out!

That extradition treaty making too much progress.

That a school or a prison?

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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And a second public hanging. Isn’t religion wonderful, kids? Yuck!

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

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Stillbirth—and the handmaids around the real mother—didn’t they make a nice heart shape?

June “This place you have built is killing her (Commander’s wife.) You are not protecting her but killing her. With one phone call you can set her free.”

Powerful stuff.

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