In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby johnsmith » 14 Jul 2018, 08:32

Auggie wrote:Do you think a ruling class is necessary??


depends what you mean by ruling class. If you're talking about overlords, no, certainly not necessary. If you're talking about the political class, yes, they are necessary (but becoming less so) however I wouldn't call them the ruling class. The most important thing however is that the political class listen to it's constituents. They are meant to be the publics servants, not the other way around.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby johnsmith » 14 Jul 2018, 08:33

welcome Raven
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby johnsmith » 14 Jul 2018, 08:54

and in more bad news for the bumbling baboon

Twelve Russian military intelligence officers hacked into the Clinton presidential campaign and the Democratic Party, releasing tens of thousands of stolen communications, in a sweeping effort by a foreign government to meddle in the 2016 US election, according to a grand jury indictment.

The indictment — announced days before US President Donald Trump's summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin — stands as the clearest Justice Department allegation yet of Russian efforts to interfere, through illegal hacking, in the election before Americans went to the polls.

It is the first to implicate the Russian Government directly. It had been sought by special counsel Robert Mueller.

US intelligence agencies have said the meddling was aimed at helping the Trump campaign and harming the election bid of his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton.

The effort also included bogus Facebook ads and social media postings that prosecutors say were aimed at influencing public opinion and sowing discord on hot-button social issues.

The indictment lays out a sweeping effort starting in March 2016 to break into key Democratic email accounts, such as those belonging to the Democratic National Committee, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

Among those targeted was John Podesta, the Clinton campaign chairman.

The Kremlin denied anew it tried to sway the election

But the indictment identifies the defendants as officers with Russia's Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff, also known as GRU.

It accuses them of covertly monitoring the computers of dozens of Democratic officials and volunteers, implanting malicious computer code known as malware and using spear phishing emails to gain control of the accounts of people associated with the Clinton campaign.

By June 2016, the defendants began planning the release of tens of thousands of stolen emails and documents, the indictment alleges. The messages were released through fictitious personas like DCLeaks and Guccifer 2.0.

The charges come as Mr Mueller continues to investigate potential coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign to influence the presidential election.

The indictment does not allege that Trump campaign associates were involved in the hacking efforts or that any American was knowingly in contact with Russian intelligence officers.

The indictment also does not allege that any vote tallies were altered by hacking.

Still, Deputy Attorney-General Rod Rosenstein said the internet "allows foreign adversaries to attack Americans in new and unexpected ways".

"Free and fair elections are hard fought and contentious and there will always be adversaries who work to exacerbate domestic differences and try to confuse, divide and conquer us," he said.

'I love getting along with other countries': Trump
Before Friday, 20 people and three companies had been charged in the Mueller investigation. The 20 are four former Trump campaign and White House aides, three who have pleaded guilty to different crimes and agreed to cooperate, and 13 Russians accused of participating in a hidden but powerful social media campaign to sway US public opinion in the election.

If the involvement of the GRU officers in the hacking effort is proved, it will shatter the Kremlin denials of the Russian state's involvement in the US elections.

The GRU, which answers to the Russian military's General Staff, is part of the state machine and its involvement would indicate that the orders to interfere in the US election came from the very top.

Hours before the Justice Department announcement, Mr Trump complained anew that the special counsel's investigation is complicating his efforts to forge a better working relationship with Russia.

Mr Trump and Mr Putin are scheduled to hold talks on Monday in Finland, a meeting largely sought by Mr Trump.

After the indictments were announced, top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer called on Mr Trump to cancel his meeting with Mr Putin until Russia takes steps to prove it will not interfere in future elections.

He said the indictments were "further proof of what everyone but the President seems to understand — President Putin is an adversary who interfered in our elections to help President Trump win".

Mr Trump said at a news conference on Friday near London with British Prime Minister Theresa May that he was not going into the meeting with Mr Putin with "high expectations".

Referring to Mr Mueller's probe, he said: "We do have a political problem where, you know, in the United States we have this stupidity going on. Pure stupidity. But it makes it very hard to do something with Russia. Anything you do, it's always going to be, 'Oh, Russia, he loves Russia'.

"I love the United States. But I love getting along with Russia and China and other countries."



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-14/12-russians-accused-of-hacking-democrats-in-2016-us-election/9993804


tick tock tick tock .... time is running out for the idiot. At least we already know he likes orange, he won't complain about the prison uniform.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Auggie » 14 Jul 2018, 11:15

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:Do you think a ruling class is necessary??


depends what you mean by ruling class. If you're talking about overlords, no, certainly not necessary. If you're talking about the political class, yes, they are necessary (but becoming less so) however I wouldn't call them the ruling class. The most important thing however is that the political class listen to it's constituents. They are meant to be the publics servants, not the other way around.


In reality though, the whole purpose of a political class (Which is essentially a ruling class) is that they're not also going to represent their constituents. That's the nature of the beast. That a flaw in our representative democracy - it is elitist by nature.

But, you haven't specifically answered this point: if convention in international politics is important, why is it less important in domestic affairs? For e.g. there is 'unparliamentary' language which is a convention between MPs not to directly insult MPs directly. Do you support this convention?? Don't forget that conventions are often made and determined by those who are in power because it suits them.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Auggie » 14 Jul 2018, 11:19

pinkeye wrote:
Auggie wrote:
pinkeye wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:trumps a fool. Only bigger fools like moronic think he's any good.


So, he's a moron because he condemns a deal which the people did not vote for?


Ahh but a powerful moron. :roll
How did it come to this?

Trump obviously believes that he is the KING of the WORLD. :clap :clap He feels entitled to treat other world leaders like silly children, and I guess that's because.? he himself operates at that level.

So much like Kim and Putin, it makes me wonder... how the fuck did we get to this...? :roll :roll


It got to this because people are sick and tired of politicians and political correctness. Trump is a refreshing voice for those who value honesty and bluntness. His criticism of the Brexit plan is a direct attack on the elites and the globalists, something which you should support (if you consider yourself a woman of the people).


You must be joking. Trump is the quintessential liar. His lies are so outrageous, no-one is game to call him. Sure... Europe is in shock from his tactics, .. but..! they lack substance.
He actually believes he is living in the Apprentice Mach 2.


You praise him. Unbelievable. Oh well. The future holds the final story on this.
Trump has instituted the great fall from power, of the US. And, the RISE of other powers. Perfect patsy.. the Manchurian candidate.

Watch it all fall down.... jees I'm glad I'm old. :roll


Well, if America falls, it will give Britain an opportunity to become the world's superpower (hopefully).

In regards to your criticism of my praise of him. If he does something good, should I just criticise him because I am ideologically opposed to him? Trump in THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE was defending the Brexit vote, which, whether you agree with it or not, was determined by the British people in a referendum. It was abundantly clear at the time that leaving the EU was a hard leave, not a soft one. Trump was merely reinforcing this point. fs

I actually have no qualms about countries criticising other countries, provided that it be in a diplomatic way; the problem is that the ruling elites of each country don't want to do that because they want to perpetuate the status quo. I wish Australian leaders criticised America more.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Squire » 14 Jul 2018, 11:40

Auggie wrote:... Well, if America falls, it will give Britain an opportunity to become the world's superpower (hopefully). ...

... I wish Australian leaders criticised America more.


Fat chance of the UK ever becoming a world power again. China, Germany, and India are the next candidates well ahead of the UK.

The last Australian Prime Minister and government to criticize the USA, Gough Whitlam and the Labor Party were deposed in a CIA coup in 1975.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Kunning » 14 Jul 2018, 14:01

Auggie wrote:
pinkeye wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:trumps a fool. Only bigger fools like moronic think he's any good.


So, he's a moron because he condemns a deal which the people did not vote for?


Ahh but a powerful moron. :roll
How did it come to this?

Trump obviously believes that he is the KING of the WORLD. :clap :clap He feels entitled to treat other world leaders like silly children, and I guess that's because.? he himself operates at that level.

So much like Kim and Putin, it makes me wonder... how the fuck did we get to this...? :roll :roll


It got to this because people are sick and tired of politicians and political correctness. Trump is a refreshing voice for those who value honesty and bluntness. His criticism of the Brexit plan is a direct attack on the elites and the globalists, something which you should support (if you consider yourself a woman of the people).


Not at all. Trump's just playing divide-and-conquer with the world's biggest economy, the EU. The strategy, if there is one, is to reclaim the dominant position as the world's exporter. This is how the US worked in the post-war era. Back then, Europe needed US goods. Countries like Germany now outsell and out-produce the US in a number of markets.

But thinking of the world in these sorts of competitive terms is ridiculous. The global economy is integrated. Chinese, German and American car-parts, for example, go into all US-made cars. China is now a major investor in the US, creating jobs. The outsourcing that the 80s and 90s saw has come full circle, which is why the US is now back in growth.

Trump is merely trying to prise countries like the U.K. out of their own sovereign deals. This wouldn't benefit the US, it's just Trump playing isolationism, which is in no one's interest.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby johnsmith » 14 Jul 2018, 14:12

Auggie wrote:In reality though, the whole purpose of a political class (Which is essentially a ruling class) is that they're not also going to represent their constituents.


I don't accept that. That is what they want you to believe. Move to a more direct democracy, and the politicians will fall into line real quick.

Auggie wrote:if convention in international politics is important, why is it less important in domestic affairs?

who said it was?
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Auggie » 14 Jul 2018, 14:54

johnsmith wrote:I don't accept that. That is what they want you to believe. Move to a more direct democracy, and the politicians will fall into line real quick.


You can accept it or not, that is what history has taught us, and that is what the facts indicate. Direct democracy isn't actually direct democracy, it's just more 'democratic' strain of representative democracy. Direct democracy really requires an influential group to put forward the proposal.

Perhaps you missed my earlier point about sortition and what they did in Ancient Athens.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Auggie » 14 Jul 2018, 14:55

Squire wrote:
Auggie wrote:... Well, if America falls, it will give Britain an opportunity to become the world's superpower (hopefully). ...

... I wish Australian leaders criticised America more.


Fat chance of the UK ever becoming a world power again. China, Germany, and India are the next candidates well ahead of the UK.

The last Australian Prime Minister and government to criticize the USA, Gough Whitlam and the Labor Party were deposed in a CIA coup in 1975.


Rubbish!

Got any proof? Or are you one of those loony left-wing conspiracy theorist?
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby johnsmith » 14 Jul 2018, 14:59

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I don't accept that. That is what they want you to believe. Move to a more direct democracy, and the politicians will fall into line real quick.


You can accept it or not, that is what history has taught us, and that is what the facts indicate. Direct democracy isn't actually direct democracy, it's just more 'democratic' strain of representative democracy. Direct democracy really requires an influential group to put forward the proposal.

Perhaps you missed my earlier point about sortition and what they did in Ancient Athens.


no, history hasn't taught us that politicians are elite, instead it has taught us that they are corrupt and will throw their constituents under the bus if it means more profit for them. It is politicians who tell you they have to do what they do because it's what people want, when most people don't agree .... the real issue is that people feel powerless to change it.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby Auggie » 14 Jul 2018, 15:09

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I don't accept that. That is what they want you to believe. Move to a more direct democracy, and the politicians will fall into line real quick.


You can accept it or not, that is what history has taught us, and that is what the facts indicate. Direct democracy isn't actually direct democracy, it's just more 'democratic' strain of representative democracy. Direct democracy really requires an influential group to put forward the proposal.

Perhaps you missed my earlier point about sortition and what they did in Ancient Athens.


no, history hasn't taught us that politicians are elite, instead it has taught us that they are corrupt and will throw their constituents under the bus if it means more profit for them. It is politicians who tell you they have to do what they do because it's what people want, when most people don't agree .... the real issue is that people feel powerless to change it.


Actually, perhaps I was wrong; maybe most people do want it. Maybe they want the highly paid politician, or the leader who has a family. Maybe the real fault here is the people who elect these people in government.
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby johnsmith » 14 Jul 2018, 20:09

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I don't accept that. That is what they want you to believe. Move to a more direct democracy, and the politicians will fall into line real quick.


You can accept it or not, that is what history has taught us, and that is what the facts indicate. Direct democracy isn't actually direct democracy, it's just more 'democratic' strain of representative democracy. Direct democracy really requires an influential group to put forward the proposal.

Perhaps you missed my earlier point about sortition and what they did in Ancient Athens.


no, history hasn't taught us that politicians are elite, instead it has taught us that they are corrupt and will throw their constituents under the bus if it means more profit for them. It is politicians who tell you they have to do what they do because it's what people want, when most people don't agree .... the real issue is that people feel powerless to change it.


Actually, perhaps I was wrong; maybe most people do want it. Maybe they want the highly paid politician, or the leader who has a family. Maybe the real fault here is the people who elect these people in government.


good luck trying to get a politician to change a policy that is detrimental to their own well being. The extreme left and right in Italy haven't been able to agree on anything since WWII, suddenly the 5 star party comes along and the politicians own positions are under threat and we have the extreme left and extreme right parties working together to keep 5 star out. It's time we stopped accepting politicians who don't give a shit and we forced their hand
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Re: In explosive interview, Trump slags Theresa May's Brexit

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Jul 2018, 22:26

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