Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee children

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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 21:07

chris155au wrote: Firstly, "that is not only" what?

I don't know what aussie was thinking, but I would run with 'not only an act of war ....'
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 08 Nov 2018, 21:29

Or an infringement of the right of free passage....or trespass, or kidnapping...etc. Choose your poison.
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 20:31

johnsmith wrote:why would they when the can approach an Australian in Malaysia and claim asylum?


How would they get to Malaysia?

johnsmith wrote:i thought you were only worried about drowning in Australian waters? Shall we now start rescuing asylum seekers in the Mediterranean too?


Why would asylum seekers need rescuing in the Mediterranean? Didn't you say that your plan would "stop drownings at sea?"

johnsmith wrote:they've been saying they're working through out an arrangement for the last 6 years. Don't tell me you actually believe the spin doctors this time? what makes this time so different to the last 50 times they said it over the last 6 years?


To be honest, after checking more into it, it does appear that it isn't as far along as I thought. Its just that I saw a news report last week about it and in the report the NZ Prime Minister stressed her willingness to enter into talks. I must have gotten a false confidence from that news report. Anyway, lets hope that something can eventuate. I have to say though, if the government do end up sending them to NZ, I can't see why that is so much different to bringing them here. If the government wants to use the argument that bringing them here would incentivise the people smugglers and put them back in business, then how can they not reasonably apply the same argument to sending them to NZ? I don't think that the significant factor is them being settled here, I think the significant factor is that they are settled anywhere. The point is that they MUST be settled SOMEWHERE. To be honest, I'm not totally against the idea of bringing them here, because the ruthless, no nonsense, Operation Sovereign Borders seems to be pretty good at keeping boats away and surely the people smugglers knows this by now. Would they really be incentivised to go up against it? I can't see them being too successful. Are the government not confident in their ability to keep the possible onslaught of boats away? I guess they could use the argument that an onslaught of boats coming from multiple headings would be difficult to cover.

johnsmith wrote:you were the one who stipulated that our duty of care applied to 'Australian territory or waters'


Sure, but this doesn't mean that I think that we shouldn't have compassion for other countries! So I ask again: Why don't you think we have a moral duty of care?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 20:38

Hey Aussie, you got that MORAL argument for me yet?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 09 Nov 2018, 20:45

chris155au wrote:Hey Aussie, you got that MORAL argument for me yet?


What 'moral' argument?

:?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 20:49

johnsmith wrote:
rescuing people is not the same as piracy.

Australia, like all coastal states, is under an absolute obligation to undertake rescue at sea wherever and whenever necessary.


Great. Great. That's the LEGAL argument. Now what about the MORAL argument? Let's assume that no such obligation existed and we could do whatever we wanted.

johnsmith wrote:
what about our moral right to protect kids from starving in Africa?
Or our moral right to stop innocents being slaughtered by drug barons in Colombia?
or a myriad of other sad stories across the globe?

does not our moral responsibility extend to everyone?


Absolutely our moral responsibility extend to everyone, but we can't help everyone can we?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 20:51

Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:Hey Aussie, you got that MORAL argument for me yet?


What 'moral' argument?

:?


Haha. Oh man, I feel like donating a bunch of money so that Political Animal can be migrated to XenForo so that we can get alerts! You missed this post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5122&start=175#p151391
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby johnsmith » 09 Nov 2018, 21:06

chris155au wrote:
How would they get to Malaysia?


fly? walk? how would I know and why would I care?


chris155au wrote:Why would asylum seekers need rescuing in the Mediterranean? Didn't you say that your plan would "stop drownings at sea?"


are you being an idiot deliberately?

chris155au wrote:Anyway, lets hope that something can eventuate

I'm not holding my breath .. the only way I see it happening is if he thinks it might give him a chance at the election. To little to late as far as I'm concerned.

chris155au wrote: I can't see why that is so much different to bringing them here.

whats stopping the aussie govt set up a different class of visa for NZanders that kiwis who were asylum seekers are never to be given residency? I think the whole thing is another convenient excuse

chris155au wrote:Sure, but this doesn't mean that I think that we shouldn't have compassion for other countries!

have all the compassion you like, but outside of our foreign donations, it's not our job to solve the rest of the worlds problems

chris155au wrote:Why don't you think we have a moral duty of care?

because we don't. It makes no sense to claim we have a moral duty of care outside of our territories. If that was the case the govt would be morally responsible for any suffering, anywhere in the world. Outside our borders we do what we can, when we can, but we are not under any obligation to do so, neither morally or otherwise.
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby johnsmith » 09 Nov 2018, 21:07

chris155au wrote:Great. Great. That's the LEGAL argument. Now what about the MORAL argument? Let's assume that no such obligation existed and we could do whatever we wanted.


that is the moral argument. Technically there is no such thing as international law.
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 09 Nov 2018, 21:10

chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:Hey Aussie, you got that MORAL argument for me yet?


What 'moral' argument?

:?


Haha. Oh man, I feel like donating a bunch of money so that Political Animal can be migrated to XenForo so that we can get alerts! You missed this post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5122&start=175#p151391


Great. That's the LEGAL argument. Now what about the MORAL argument? Let's assume that no such 'Law of the Sea' existed and we could do whatever we wanted.


It would be a very amoral person who would sail away from lives in danger.
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 23:47

Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:Hey Aussie, you got that MORAL argument for me yet?


What 'moral' argument?

:?


Haha. Oh man, I feel like donating a bunch of money so that Political Animal can be migrated to XenForo so that we can get alerts! You missed this post: http://www.polanimal.com.au/viewtopic.p ... 75#p151391


Great. That's the LEGAL argument. Now what about the MORAL argument? Let's assume that no such 'Law of the Sea' existed and we could do whatever we wanted.


It would be a very amoral person who would sail away from lives in danger.


And as for the rest of your response to that post?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 10 Nov 2018, 16:39

I guess we're done here! Unless you guys are having a busy Saturday!
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 10 Nov 2018, 17:53

chris155au wrote:I guess we're done here! Unless you guys are having a busy Saturday!


Chris, my mates reckon I must have more than one penis.....but.....I am not too good at handling multiple posts to which several Members might expect a response from at the same time.

And.....

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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Nov 2018, 18:34

Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:I guess we're done here! Unless you guys are having a busy Saturday!


Chris, my mates reckon I must have more than one penis.....but.....I am not too good at handling multiple posts to which several Members might expect a response from at the same time.

And.....

:beer

That because you piss in so many pockets?


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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 10 Nov 2018, 18:36

Nah.....it goes along the lines of....'You can't possibly be that useless (at Golf) with just one dick.' A Game of Golf with my Mates is a blood sport.

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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Nov 2018, 18:57

I like my version better. :rofl
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 10 Nov 2018, 20:02

Aussie wrote:
I am not too good at handling multiple posts to which several Members might expect a response from at the same time.


What does that have to do with your mates thinking that you must have more than one penis?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 10 Nov 2018, 20:11

chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:
I am not too good at handling multiple posts to which several Members might expect a response from at the same time.


What does that have to do with your mates thinking that you must have more than one penis?


Nothing at all.
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 10 Nov 2018, 20:34

Aussie wrote:Our Navy is intercepting boats within the territorial waters of another Sovereign Nation. That is not only, but it is piracy.


I don't see the evidence that it is illegal. Firstly, "that is not only" what? And what makes you think the we would have to board the vessels in order to get them to turn back?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby chris155au » 10 Nov 2018, 20:35

johnsmith wrote:
chris155au wrote: Firstly, "that is not only" what?

I don't know what aussie was thinking, but I would run with 'not only an act of war ....'


An act of war on which country?
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby Aussie » 10 Nov 2018, 21:16

chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:Our Navy is intercepting boats within the territorial waters of another Sovereign Nation. That is not only, but it is piracy.


I don't see the evidence that it is illegal. Firstly, "that is not only" what? And what makes you think the we would have to board the vessels in order to get them to turn back?


So.....you don't reckon that if a Chinese naval vessel came into our territorial waters and started bullying local yachties about where they can sail therein or therefrom, Australia would get mightily and rightly pissed off at their piracy, invasion, trespassing, interference with freedom, deprivation of liberty and whatever else I can dream up as realistic if you need more?

Sure....no need to board....just show them your guns and, if necessary, send a few shells over and across their bows.
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Re: Morrison's crocodile tears while he abuses refugee child

Postby johnsmith » 10 Nov 2018, 21:50

chris155au wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
chris155au wrote: Firstly, "that is not only" what?

I don't know what aussie was thinking, but I would run with 'not only an act of war ....'


An act of war on which country?


which ever country's waters they are boarding boats in
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