The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

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The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby mothra » 11 Jan 2019, 12:34

The moral and intellectual collapse of Australian conservatism

The St Kilda rally isn’t an abberation. It is the natural conclusion of the moral and intellectual collapse of Australian conservatism.

Scott Morrison deserves some praise. It’s not often a half-hearted condemnation of neo-Nazis deserves plaudits, but achievement is relative – among Australian conservatives, unequivocal criticism of the far right now puts you well ahead of the pack. That’s about the lowest bar that you can set, but rather than stepping over it, much of the commentariat takes it as an invitation to a limbo contest. The same people always claiming that “everything is racist now” seem to have decided that nothing is, not even Roman salutes.

Miranda Devine thought the anger over a sitting Australian senator appearing alongside neo-Nazis was all a beat-up, and that the real outrage should be reserved for Chloe and Bill Shorten attending Mardi Gras, “a similarly boutique event”, on the tax-payer coin. “Maybe everyone at that rally in St Kilda was a Nazi,” she wrote in the Daily Telegraph, “but chances are that many were just Australians who feel powerless to protect themselves from Melbourne’s violent car-jacking and home invasions, and who are sick of soft, politically correct policing.”

The former IPA man Sinclair Davidson was also on hypocrisy watch, noting that Tony Abbott himself spoke at protests where “participants got over-excited”.

Many of the “over-excited” at St Kilda beach seemed to be sporting prison facial tattoos, or outlaw bikie club insignia, so it was already hard to paint them as a rag-tag Neighbourhood Watch. The real give-away, though, was the speakers. If it was all about home invasions, why choose a convicted, jailed home invader as the key note? (Unless, of course, “our” criminals are different from Them).

Nevertheless, underneath these repugnant excuses is something important: Devine and Davidson are right. The dividing line between the right and far-right in Australia isn’t one of substance, it is one of style. They are not the exception, but the rule.

We are long past the point of asking “how did this happen?”, when an Australian politician pals around with neo-Nazis. The pertinent question instead is “which one?” Senator Fraser Anning’s appearance on the weekend was egregious, but it is hardly isolated, unique, or unexpected.

It is not even the the first time he had addressed a neo-Nazi rally: that was in October, 2018, at the “LibertyFest” conference, where Blair Cottrell was a special invitee, along with Senators James Paterson, Amanda Stoker and the MPs George Christensen and Craig Kelly. Perhaps they didn’t meet Cottrell, or know who he was, though by then he’d already been given a nationally televised interview with Sky News.

It’s true that any station built around the charisma of Paul Murray doesn’t have a great talent pool to draw from, but even for them, Cottrell was a bridge too far. But it wasn’t many bridges too far, was it. Because along with the Liberal Party, the Murdoch press, and almost every other major right-wing institution in Australia, Sky helped pour the concrete, set the girders, lay the tarmac and hammer the rivets. It can hardly pretend shock when someone finally cuts the ribbon, as if this was the first manufactured racial panic to get out of control.

Like many things that make the news, the only truly exceptional element from the St Kilda rally was the footage. Otherwise, it was almost routine. George Christensen appeared at a Reclaim Australia rally, and guested on the kind of alt-right podcast which advertises itself with imagery of gas chamber ovens.

The Canadian “identitarian” Lauren Southern got a red carpet treatment from the Murdoch media, but her chosen security detail was drawn from Cottrell’s neo-Nazis gang as well.

Pauline Hanson invited Southern to a rain-checked dinner at Parliament House, then followed up with a motion endorsing an alt-right slogan, which nearly passed the Senate on Coalition votes. I wrote last year about Quadrant magazine’s approving noises for the Holocaust denier Tomislav Sunić, and any time you think these people have reached rock bottom, they drill for the molten core: Dr Sunić was lately a special guest of the NSW Parliament, and addressed members of the Young Liberals at a soiree afterwards.

At what point does guilt by association just become … association? This isn’t some series of repeat lapsed judgements. It is a real ideological affiliation, the end-stage of the racist disease course that has afflicted Australian conservatism for decades.

This is why Scott Morrison can attack the gestures on display on the weekend, but he can’t attack the sentiments: because they’re shared by people on his front bench. Take away the salutes and the SS helmets, and those speeches could have been made by Peter Dutton, or Kevin Andrews. “I have repeatedly asked of the crime-plagued Sudanese in particular: who let them in?” asked Andrew Bolt, and that’s the loudest voice on the Australian right.

It’s true that not every local conservative is like this. But the exceptions are marginal, or powerless, or paralysed, or can’t seem to wrest the megaphone away from the bigoted.

The left-wing caricature of the right-wing is that their ideas are just a series of shoddy disguises for sexism, racism and homophobia, that conservatism is the natural home of “homophobic, anti-women, climate-change deniers”, to quote the federal minister for women, Kelly O’Dwyer.

Who can say, here, that this wrong, when so many are determined to prove it? Where else, in the English-speaking world, is still having controversies over Sambo drawings in the 21st century? If recent years are anything to go by, the difference between the right and the far-right in Australia isn’t some ideological gulf. Too often, it’s what people are willing to say after they’ve had two beers.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/11/the-natural-conclusion-of-the-moral-and-intellectual-collapse-of-australian-conservatism?fbclid=IwAR3818LWQpAwfeFw6UphvxsBh5KwUse8UhhXiOClv-S6ApE_4hJ6JrcXuuk
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Texan » 11 Jan 2019, 14:03

I can't claim to know Australian politics or politicians, so I can only speak in generalities. I am very conservative. I probably share many beliefs with Nazis or racists of many types, but I don't share those racist beliefs and refuse to associate with them. That's easy for me, as a private citizen. I can easily control who I associate with because I know everybody I associate with. I actually agreed with many things that fisherman said, but I refused to put up with his abusiveness and manipulation and let him know that. I was afraid that I would be associated with his racist views and made a point to distance myself from him.

That's not always easy to do as a public figure. You can't control who supports you. Every white supremacist in the US probably voted for Trump in 2016, but you can't blame Trump for that. There are other reasons to hate him, but he has his qualities also. This isn't about Trump. It's just the first example that popped in my head. My point is if a cabinet member turns out to be racist, see how his appointer deals with it before you blame him. And racism crosses political boundaries. Racists can share political beliefs with anybody, including you.
All new states are invested, more or less, by a class of noisy, second-rate men who are always in favor of rash and extreme measures, but Texas was absolutely overrun by such men.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby greggerypeccary » 11 Jan 2019, 14:10

Texan wrote:I... but you can't blame Trump for that. There are other reasons to hate him, but he has his qualities also. This isn't about Trump.


You're right, it's not about Trump.

However, that line intrigued me.

When you say he has qualities, I assume you mean good qualities.

Could you perhaps tell me what some of those are.

I have always tried to be objective and look for the good in Trump.

Everyone has something good about them, no matter who they are.

For the life of me, I can't find a good quality in Trump.

Help me!
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Texan » 11 Jan 2019, 14:33

Wrong thread. I don't want to continue the derail. Sorry. Carry on.
All new states are invested, more or less, by a class of noisy, second-rate men who are always in favor of rash and extreme measures, but Texas was absolutely overrun by such men.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 11 Jan 2019, 15:49

mothra wrote:The moral and intellectual collapse of Australian conservatism

The St Kilda rally isn’t an abberation. It is the natural conclusion of the moral and intellectual collapse of Australian conservatism.

Scott Morrison deserves some praise. It’s not often a half-hearted condemnation of neo-Nazis deserves plaudits, but achievement is relative – among Australian conservatives, unequivocal criticism of the far right now puts you well ahead of the pack. That’s about the lowest bar that you can set, but rather than stepping over it, much of the commentariat takes it as an invitation to a limbo contest. The same people always claiming that “everything is racist now” seem to have decided that nothing is, not even Roman salutes.

Miranda Devine thought the anger over a sitting Australian senator appearing alongside neo-Nazis was all a beat-up, and that the real outrage should be reserved for Chloe and Bill Shorten attending Mardi Gras, “a similarly boutique event”, on the tax-payer coin. “Maybe everyone at that rally in St Kilda was a Nazi,” she wrote in the Daily Telegraph, “but chances are that many were just Australians who feel powerless to protect themselves from Melbourne’s violent car-jacking and home invasions, and who are sick of soft, politically correct policing.”

The former IPA man Sinclair Davidson was also on hypocrisy watch, noting that Tony Abbott himself spoke at protests where “participants got over-excited”.

Many of the “over-excited” at St Kilda beach seemed to be sporting prison facial tattoos, or outlaw bikie club insignia, so it was already hard to paint them as a rag-tag Neighbourhood Watch. The real give-away, though, was the speakers. If it was all about home invasions, why choose a convicted, jailed home invader as the key note? (Unless, of course, “our” criminals are different from Them).

Nevertheless, underneath these repugnant excuses is something important: Devine and Davidson are right. The dividing line between the right and far-right in Australia isn’t one of substance, it is one of style. They are not the exception, but the rule.

We are long past the point of asking “how did this happen?”, when an Australian politician pals around with neo-Nazis. The pertinent question instead is “which one?” Senator Fraser Anning’s appearance on the weekend was egregious, but it is hardly isolated, unique, or unexpected.

It is not even the the first time he had addressed a neo-Nazi rally: that was in October, 2018, at the “LibertyFest” conference, where Blair Cottrell was a special invitee, along with Senators James Paterson, Amanda Stoker and the MPs George Christensen and Craig Kelly. Perhaps they didn’t meet Cottrell, or know who he was, though by then he’d already been given a nationally televised interview with Sky News.

It’s true that any station built around the charisma of Paul Murray doesn’t have a great talent pool to draw from, but even for them, Cottrell was a bridge too far. But it wasn’t many bridges too far, was it. Because along with the Liberal Party, the Murdoch press, and almost every other major right-wing institution in Australia, Sky helped pour the concrete, set the girders, lay the tarmac and hammer the rivets. It can hardly pretend shock when someone finally cuts the ribbon, as if this was the first manufactured racial panic to get out of control.

Like many things that make the news, the only truly exceptional element from the St Kilda rally was the footage. Otherwise, it was almost routine. George Christensen appeared at a Reclaim Australia rally, and guested on the kind of alt-right podcast which advertises itself with imagery of gas chamber ovens.

The Canadian “identitarian” Lauren Southern got a red carpet treatment from the Murdoch media, but her chosen security detail was drawn from Cottrell’s neo-Nazis gang as well.

Pauline Hanson invited Southern to a rain-checked dinner at Parliament House, then followed up with a motion endorsing an alt-right slogan, which nearly passed the Senate on Coalition votes. I wrote last year about Quadrant magazine’s approving noises for the Holocaust denier Tomislav Sunić, and any time you think these people have reached rock bottom, they drill for the molten core: Dr Sunić was lately a special guest of the NSW Parliament, and addressed members of the Young Liberals at a soiree afterwards.

At what point does guilt by association just become … association? This isn’t some series of repeat lapsed judgements. It is a real ideological affiliation, the end-stage of the racist disease course that has afflicted Australian conservatism for decades.

This is why Scott Morrison can attack the gestures on display on the weekend, but he can’t attack the sentiments: because they’re shared by people on his front bench. Take away the salutes and the SS helmets, and those speeches could have been made by Peter Dutton, or Kevin Andrews. “I have repeatedly asked of the crime-plagued Sudanese in particular: who let them in?” asked Andrew Bolt, and that’s the loudest voice on the Australian right.

It’s true that not every local conservative is like this. But the exceptions are marginal, or powerless, or paralysed, or can’t seem to wrest the megaphone away from the bigoted.

The left-wing caricature of the right-wing is that their ideas are just a series of shoddy disguises for sexism, racism and homophobia, that conservatism is the natural home of “homophobic, anti-women, climate-change deniers”, to quote the federal minister for women, Kelly O’Dwyer.

Who can say, here, that this wrong, when so many are determined to prove it? Where else, in the English-speaking world, is still having controversies over Sambo drawings in the 21st century? If recent years are anything to go by, the difference between the right and the far-right in Australia isn’t some ideological gulf. Too often, it’s what people are willing to say after they’ve had two beers.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/11/the-natural-conclusion-of-the-moral-and-intellectual-collapse-of-australian-conservatism?fbclid=IwAR3818LWQpAwfeFw6UphvxsBh5KwUse8UhhXiOClv-S6ApE_4hJ6JrcXuuk


Pot calling the kettle black, typical ideological blame game. You conveniently dismiss, it is you and your ilk who demand low life primitive minded morons be brought into this country, it's you and you ilk who demand very small minorities of idiots get the final say in our society when the majority miss out. It's you ans your idiotic mob who demand political correctness is the way to go when all the fact show the opposite.

You and your idiotic left wing useless PC drop kicks are the ones who set the scenarios, built the stage and provided the ammunition for these idiots to have a band stand to climb up on.

It's you who are bringing up events that happened almost 70 years ago, which the moron Jews have used to shut down any sensible form of logical debate into their claims. Even though many were slaughtered, it pales into comparison when you consider he number of other civilians slaughtered in wars.

Our countries social structures are collapsing because of the deranged left wing idiocy forcing everyone to change how they view sexual orientation, relationships and approaches to life. It's you and your mob who have provided the right wingers a platform and no one else.

You're all just a stupidly dumb as each other and the quicker nature wipes most of humanity out, the better off the planet will be and it can't come soon enough for real Australians. You've wiped out the environment, destroyed the longest ecological and environmentally sustainable surviving culture and lifestyle on the planet.

Now you continue to demand we import more and more complete ideological idiots into the country, you feed your obese faces with shit, throw away your junk waste, irrelevant to the cost to a viable future and then you have the audacity to try to blame others.

Your god of PVC idiocy doesn't exist, no different to the mythical god of war you all grovel over, you're just completely brain dead and wastes of space. The sensible Aussies would put all right wing, god nutters., left wing and PC morons on ships and send to lot of you to the USA, Africa and the middle east so you can be with your deranged ilk and fight amongst yourselves and hopefully wipe each other out fast. Noe of you are any use to the future in any way.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Miranda » 11 Jan 2019, 18:55

What a cheery up lifting soul you are Dax.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Jan 2019, 20:22

I think too many conservatives excused the turd Howard and since have not been able to assert an independent position since. Even as the Lib/Nat brand turned into a little puddle of diarrhea they could not disassociate themselves from the corruption, incompetence, racism and sexism that is the LNP.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 12 Jan 2019, 05:26

Miranda wrote:What a cheery up lifting soul you are Dax.


Facts are fact Miranda, left wingers are no different right wingers, just as stupid and useless. It's ethics which rule the natural world, morals are an idiotic human concept which don't fit anywhere in real life.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Miranda » 12 Jan 2019, 08:54

Dax wrote:
Miranda wrote:What a cheery up lifting soul you are Dax.


Facts are fact Miranda, left wingers are no different right wingers, just as stupid and useless. It's ethics which rule the natural world, morals are an idiotic human concept which don't fit anywhere in real life.


Don't use words that you don't understand...

ethics
[ˈɛθɪks]

NOUN
moral principles that govern a person's behaviour or the conducting of an activity.
"medical ethics also enter into the question" · [More]
synonyms:
moral code · morals · morality · moral stand · moral principles · [More]
the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles.
"neither metaphysics nor ethics is the home of religion"
synonyms:
fairness · justness · fair play · fair-mindedness · equity · equitableness

https://www.bing.com/search?q=ethics+de ... ARqs7e9Au7

It's the laws of physics that rule the natural world.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 12 Jan 2019, 09:43

Miranda wrote:
Dax wrote:
Miranda wrote:What a cheery up lifting soul you are Dax.


Facts are fact Miranda, left wingers are no different right wingers, just as stupid and useless. It's ethics which rule the natural world, morals are an idiotic human concept which don't fit anywhere in real life.


Don't use words that you don't understand...

ethics
[ˈɛθɪks]

NOUN
moral principles that govern a person's behaviour or the conducting of an activity.
"medical ethics also enter into the question" · [More]
synonyms:
moral code · morals · morality · moral stand · moral principles · [More]
the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles.
"neither metaphysics nor ethics is the home of religion"
synonyms:
fairness · justness · fair play · fair-mindedness · equity · equitableness

https://www.bing.com/search?q=ethics+de ... ARqs7e9Au7

It's the laws of physics that rule the natural world.


Seems your programming doesn't include reality and like all clones ideologue, you can't see past your simple programing. Using bing, is hilarious, considering it is heavily controlled and was designed to direct searchers to the ideological definitions which suit the ideology and not reality. Only fools would us bing, or for that matter last century windows or apple, sane logical people use this century open source, non tracking, non data mining systems, which by the way, controls 99% of all computing on the planet and 100% of off planet computing and communications systems.

Morals are a human concept, designed to control people but doesn't include an ethical approach to life, just the opposite. In the natural world of life, ethics rules, whilst in ideological humans lives, morals rule and they have no ethical approaches.

You see an ethical approach in wildlife, they only kill to eat and mostly take injured or the old. They allow life to go on without interruption and contribute to the sustainability of nature.

Morals relate purely to humans fantasy land beliefs and not ethics, which is why ideological humans kill for pleasure, greed, destroy environments, enslave animals and have no thought for what they are doing to life, or the future. That's why we have so many extinctions, ideological humans have no ethics, just ignorant self centered unworkable morals.

Physics doesn't rule the natural world, it's a concept designed to give some meaning to the operation of the universe and nothing else. When you see lots of different kinds of animals all drinking at a watering spot, they are acting ethically, when you see humans in action, it's the opposite. Humans would kill all the animals to protect the water for their destructive greed and animal enslavement. Nothing ethical about the, but deranged humans will come up with some moral justification, when there is none.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Bongalong » 12 Jan 2019, 12:00

What is ethical about everyone living back in the stone age forever?
Free what?
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 12 Jan 2019, 13:10

Bongalong wrote:What is ethical about everyone living back in the stone age forever?


I suppose if you were and urban clone intellectually incapacitated and living in disney land mentality, you'd think something as stupid as that. Living with nature in an ethical manner, doesn't mean living in a primitive cave fool, or without technology. Although I do live in the ground, which is the most sensible and wonderful thing to do in the day and age.

There is nothing wrong with most of our technology, it's the abusive and destructive way we use it that's the problem. Right wing, left wing, make no difference, all clones abuse life and the environment, purely for their own deranged self satisfaction. All clones think of is themselves and their instant gratification, never the future and that's why all sides of politics is wrong and none of them right for a viable future.

Doubt there's any intellectual capacity within any current politician, they are all brain dead including the independents. None of them have a clue, all they do is push their ideological stupidity and feather their own nests as fast as they can.

I and a few others I know, live with nature, but have the most up to date technology to help us and nature cope with the devastation created by urban clones and their never ending mountains of waste and effluent. You all moan and groan about things in life, but none of you ever do anything to make positive changes. I constantly hear from idiots that going solar is to expensive, when the opposite is the case.

You can set up a 1kw solar system for less than $1000, add another $1000 for lifepo4 storage and with the right approach, start living comfortably. Then add more solar and storage form your saving. If people stopped wasting money feeding their faces with expensive health destroying shit, they'd find they'd have a lot of money to set themselves up and when they do, they have extra money to live.

The politicians on both sides don't want everyone to go solar, or to have self sustaining electric transport, their corporate vested interests would lose out and then the parties wouldn't have any donations to lie and con the people, with their never ending lies.

The most pressing problem we have is climate change, yet not one of them has a platform or policies to tackle it logically, rationally or sustainably. It's just more of the same destructive idiocy.

More people to drive more consumerism is their mantra and both side of politics supports constant population growth at any cost. Only those whose mentality is set in the far distant past would support such stupidly dumb proposals and urban clones are right behind both parties policies, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Bongalong » 12 Jan 2019, 13:14

Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:What is ethical about everyone living back in the stone age forever?


I suppose if you were and urban clone intellectually incapacitated and living in disney land mentality, you'd think something as stupid as that. Living with nature in an ethical manner, doesn't mean living in a primitive cave fool, or without technology. Although I do live in the ground, which is the most sensible and wonderful thing to do in the day and age.

There is nothing wrong with most of our technology, it's the abusive and destructive way we use it that's the problem. Right wing, left wing, make no difference, all clones abuse life and the environment, purely for their own deranged self satisfaction. All clones think of is themselves and their instant gratification, never the future and that's why all sides of politics is wrong and none of them right for a viable future.

Doubt there's any intellectual capacity within any current politician, they are all brain dead including the independents. None of them have a clue, all they do is push their ideological stupidity and feather their own nests as fast as they can.

I and a few others I know, live with nature, but have the most up to date technology to help us and nature cope with the devastation created by urban clones and their never ending mountains of waste and effluent. You all moan and groan about things in life, but none of you ever do anything to make positive changes. I constantly hear from idiots that going solar is to expensive, when the opposite is the case.

You can set up a 1kw solar system for less than $1000, add another $1000 for lifepo4 storage and with the right approach, start living comfortably. Then add more solar and storage form your saving. If people stopped wasting money feeding their faces with expensive health destroying shit, they'd find they'd have a lot of money to set themselves up and when they do, they have extra money to live.

The politicians on both sides don't want everyone to go solar, or to have self sustaining electric transport, their corporate vested interests would lose out and then the parties wouldn't have any donations to lie and con the people, with their never ending lies.

The most pressing problem we have is climate change, yet not one of them has a platform or policies to tackle it logically, rationally or sustainably. It's just more of the same destructive idiocy.

More people to drive more consumerism is their mantra and both side of politics supports constant population growth at any cost. Only those whose mentality is set in the far distant past would support such stupidly dumb proposals and urban clones are right behind both parties policies, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them.

But you talked about ownership of land as being the human flaw: that being that it all comes from a moral basis.

Capital came from this, and thus all technology!

So you would rather a society without any of it I assume!

If not why not??
Free what?
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 12 Jan 2019, 13:29

Bongalong wrote:
Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:What is ethical about everyone living back in the stone age forever?


I suppose if you were and urban clone intellectually incapacitated and living in disney land mentality, you'd think something as stupid as that. Living with nature in an ethical manner, doesn't mean living in a primitive cave fool, or without technology. Although I do live in the ground, which is the most sensible and wonderful thing to do in the day and age.

There is nothing wrong with most of our technology, it's the abusive and destructive way we use it that's the problem. Right wing, left wing, make no difference, all clones abuse life and the environment, purely for their own deranged self satisfaction. All clones think of is themselves and their instant gratification, never the future and that's why all sides of politics is wrong and none of them right for a viable future.

Doubt there's any intellectual capacity within any current politician, they are all brain dead including the independents. None of them have a clue, all they do is push their ideological stupidity and feather their own nests as fast as they can.

I and a few others I know, live with nature, but have the most up to date technology to help us and nature cope with the devastation created by urban clones and their never ending mountains of waste and effluent. You all moan and groan about things in life, but none of you ever do anything to make positive changes. I constantly hear from idiots that going solar is to expensive, when the opposite is the case.

You can set up a 1kw solar system for less than $1000, add another $1000 for lifepo4 storage and with the right approach, start living comfortably. Then add more solar and storage form your saving. If people stopped wasting money feeding their faces with expensive health destroying shit, they'd find they'd have a lot of money to set themselves up and when they do, they have extra money to live.

The politicians on both sides don't want everyone to go solar, or to have self sustaining electric transport, their corporate vested interests would lose out and then the parties wouldn't have any donations to lie and con the people, with their never ending lies.

The most pressing problem we have is climate change, yet not one of them has a platform or policies to tackle it logically, rationally or sustainably. It's just more of the same destructive idiocy.

More people to drive more consumerism is their mantra and both side of politics supports constant population growth at any cost. Only those whose mentality is set in the far distant past would support such stupidly dumb proposals and urban clones are right behind both parties policies, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them.

But you talked about ownership of land as being the human flaw: that being that it all comes from a moral basis.

Capital came from this, and thus all technology!

So you would rather a society without any of it I assume!

If not why not??


Where did I talk about "ownership of land being a human flaw", you need to stop making things up when you don't have a clue and are desperate.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Bongalong » 13 Jan 2019, 15:27

Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:What is ethical about everyone living back in the stone age forever?


I suppose if you were and urban clone intellectually incapacitated and living in disney land mentality, you'd think something as stupid as that. Living with nature in an ethical manner, doesn't mean living in a primitive cave fool, or without technology. Although I do live in the ground, which is the most sensible and wonderful thing to do in the day and age.

There is nothing wrong with most of our technology, it's the abusive and destructive way we use it that's the problem. Right wing, left wing, make no difference, all clones abuse life and the environment, purely for their own deranged self satisfaction. All clones think of is themselves and their instant gratification, never the future and that's why all sides of politics is wrong and none of them right for a viable future.

Doubt there's any intellectual capacity within any current politician, they are all brain dead including the independents. None of them have a clue, all they do is push their ideological stupidity and feather their own nests as fast as they can.

I and a few others I know, live with nature, but have the most up to date technology to help us and nature cope with the devastation created by urban clones and their never ending mountains of waste and effluent. You all moan and groan about things in life, but none of you ever do anything to make positive changes. I constantly hear from idiots that going solar is to expensive, when the opposite is the case.

You can set up a 1kw solar system for less than $1000, add another $1000 for lifepo4 storage and with the right approach, start living comfortably. Then add more solar and storage form your saving. If people stopped wasting money feeding their faces with expensive health destroying shit, they'd find they'd have a lot of money to set themselves up and when they do, they have extra money to live.

The politicians on both sides don't want everyone to go solar, or to have self sustaining electric transport, their corporate vested interests would lose out and then the parties wouldn't have any donations to lie and con the people, with their never ending lies.

The most pressing problem we have is climate change, yet not one of them has a platform or policies to tackle it logically, rationally or sustainably. It's just more of the same destructive idiocy.

More people to drive more consumerism is their mantra and both side of politics supports constant population growth at any cost. Only those whose mentality is set in the far distant past would support such stupidly dumb proposals and urban clones are right behind both parties policies, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them.

But you talked about ownership of land as being the human flaw: that being that it all comes from a moral basis.

Capital came from this, and thus all technology!

So you would rather a society without any of it I assume!

If not why not??


Where did I talk about "ownership of land being a human flaw", you need to stop making things up when you don't have a clue and are desperate.
So what did you mean by 'humans fantasy land beliefs'?
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 13 Jan 2019, 17:21

Bongalong wrote:
Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:What is ethical about everyone living back in the stone age forever?


I suppose if you were and urban clone intellectually incapacitated and living in disney land mentality, you'd think something as stupid as that. Living with nature in an ethical manner, doesn't mean living in a primitive cave fool, or without technology. Although I do live in the ground, which is the most sensible and wonderful thing to do in the day and age.

There is nothing wrong with most of our technology, it's the abusive and destructive way we use it that's the problem. Right wing, left wing, make no difference, all clones abuse life and the environment, purely for their own deranged self satisfaction. All clones think of is themselves and their instant gratification, never the future and that's why all sides of politics is wrong and none of them right for a viable future.

Doubt there's any intellectual capacity within any current politician, they are all brain dead including the independents. None of them have a clue, all they do is push their ideological stupidity and feather their own nests as fast as they can.

I and a few others I know, live with nature, but have the most up to date technology to help us and nature cope with the devastation created by urban clones and their never ending mountains of waste and effluent. You all moan and groan about things in life, but none of you ever do anything to make positive changes. I constantly hear from idiots that going solar is to expensive, when the opposite is the case.

You can set up a 1kw solar system for less than $1000, add another $1000 for lifepo4 storage and with the right approach, start living comfortably. Then add more solar and storage form your saving. If people stopped wasting money feeding their faces with expensive health destroying shit, they'd find they'd have a lot of money to set themselves up and when they do, they have extra money to live.

The politicians on both sides don't want everyone to go solar, or to have self sustaining electric transport, their corporate vested interests would lose out and then the parties wouldn't have any donations to lie and con the people, with their never ending lies.

The most pressing problem we have is climate change, yet not one of them has a platform or policies to tackle it logically, rationally or sustainably. It's just more of the same destructive idiocy.

More people to drive more consumerism is their mantra and both side of politics supports constant population growth at any cost. Only those whose mentality is set in the far distant past would support such stupidly dumb proposals and urban clones are right behind both parties policies, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them.

But you talked about ownership of land as being the human flaw: that being that it all comes from a moral basis.

Capital came from this, and thus all technology!

So you would rather a society without any of it I assume!

If not why not??


Where did I talk about "ownership of land being a human flaw", you need to stop making things up when you don't have a clue and are desperate.
So what did you mean by 'humans fantasy land beliefs'?


That's got nothing to do with owning land, but understandable considering the intellectual capacity of clones. Ideological humans live in a mental fantasy land, thinking the way they live their lives is the reality, when it is just a delusion as their ways of life are unsustainable in all ways and extremely destructive. That's why we have no future beyond today and if you don't understand that statement, there's no hope for you whatsoever as you have no clue what reality really is.
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Miranda » 13 Jan 2019, 19:00

Will you answer the question Dax?

Bongalong wrote:
'So what did you mean by 'humans fantasy land beliefs'?'
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Re: The moral and intellectual collapse of conservatism

Postby Dax » 14 Jan 2019, 05:35

Miranda wrote:Will you answer the question Dax?

Bongalong wrote:
'So what did you mean by 'humans fantasy land beliefs'?'


As I said, if you don't understand my reply, there is no hope for you as you have no idea what reality is and are totally deluded. If you can't tell the difference between how ideological humanity lives and the requirements of nature fort sustainable living, then no good explaining anything to you.
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