50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby Bongalong » 16 Apr 2019, 13:32

Dax wrote:Every EV I've looked at, comes with a 3phase charger and a standard home charger. As previously said, most people charge their cars at home, I know some people with home made ev's and a couple who own new ones. My osteopath has a tesla, she charges her car at home and when she travels just plugs it into the motel or where ever she spends the night. In town she only charges it to 75% and doesn't let it drop below 50%, at weekends when they head out of town, she full charges it and they travel Tas in style and only top up at night. Says she gets 400klms easily even when using A/C, which in Tas is not the often.

Any word on how long before the battery won't hold charge and becomes unrelieable?

Because, to put it bluntly, I think the lack of common knowledge of such details IS the bottleneck! :bike :bike

Call it momentum...
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Apr 2019, 16:53

Bongalong wrote:
Dax wrote:Every EV I've looked at, comes with a 3phase charger and a standard home charger. As previously said, most people charge their cars at home, I know some people with home made ev's and a couple who own new ones. My osteopath has a tesla, she charges her car at home and when she travels just plugs it into the motel or where ever she spends the night. In town she only charges it to 75% and doesn't let it drop below 50%, at weekends when they head out of town, she full charges it and they travel Tas in style and only top up at night. Says she gets 400klms easily even when using A/C, which in Tas is not the often.

Any word on how long before the battery won't hold charge and becomes unrelieable?

Because, to put it bluntly, I think the lack of common knowledge of such details IS the bottleneck! :bike :bike

Call it momentum...

Tesla say their batteries are good for 1.6 million Kilometres, then its about a 20% loss of range.
A Tesla can do 600km on a full charge and lithium should be good for 2000 full charges or many more mini charges... so that's 1,200,000 km;s right there, the car will fall apart far sooner than the battery going dead.

Some tesla's now have done over 800,000km's and still going strong, I guess time will tell.

most of the new EV's have 400 km's of range so 2000 charges at that will be 800,000kms, again the car will fall apart before the battery :purple
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby Dax » 16 Apr 2019, 17:25

There are a number of types of lithium batteries as you all call them, those in the know call them packs as they are not battery as we know them. The batteries used by tesla and many other EV makers are li-ion, which are pretty unstable, easily overheat, catch fire or explode. The batteries used in phones etc are mostly li-poly, which are also unstable can catch fire and explode, but not as bad as li-ion. Then you have the most reliable, stable and extremely safe lifepo4, which is lithium iron phosphate and they are the best, although they are less dense than some of the others.

Been using lifepo4 on my home bus and workshop for over 12 years, they all have 100% capacity and function brilliantly. I have a 120ah portable pack which has been in use the longest and is used for many things on the farm, including remote MIG welding. it amazes me constantly in it's ability to charge fast, discharge fast and remain stable, never having dropped below 13v.

If you use these energy packs properly, they will last for a very long time. Been experimenting with them for as long as had them and if you keep them charged between 50-80%, they seem to improve with age. Sellers try to tell you that you should charge your car to 100% and discharge to 10%, those who know say keep them between 50 and 80%, then they are not cycling so there is no strain on the pack. This was the advise gave to my osteo when she bought her car and as she knows my knowledge off these things, that's what she does. She says the car seems to go further as it has gotten older and I agree, my packs all seem to do the same and have no explanation for that at all. It may be that because they are so efficient, they work better between those levels of charge.

Have some spare cells which are over 12 years old, they had 3.2v in them when first charged and they still have 3.2v in them, but never been charged since the first time. All my packs get better with age and my portable one is just amazing, haven't charged it for months, used every couple of days and still has 13.46v in it.
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Apr 2019, 18:02

lifepo4 batteries and the Tesla ones are both lithium ion battery but use different chemistries for their cathodes the Tesla powerwall uses yet another chemistry and would be a direct contender of the Lifepo4, ...…
Tesla has been trying to take over a company that has technology to make their batteries denser (less weight same power) and Maxwell have great solid state battery tech as well.... If it happens the vehicle's will be definitely be using the new tech, not sure if the power supply ones will get the treatment as well.I suppose if they can make the powerwalls smaller or more power for the same size I guess they might do it. Exciting times for Tesla if they can buy this company they will have even more lead on the competition. :purple
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby Bongalong » 16 Apr 2019, 21:20

DonDeeHippy wrote:lifepo4 batteries and the Tesla ones are both lithium ion battery but use different chemistries for their cathodes the Tesla powerwall uses yet another chemistry and would be a direct contender of the Lifepo4, ...…
Tesla has been trying to take over a company that has technology to make their batteries denser (less weight same power) and Maxwell have great solid state battery tech as well.... If it happens the vehicle's will be definitely be using the new tech, not sure if the power supply ones will get the treatment as well.I suppose if they can make the powerwalls smaller or more power for the same size I guess they might do it. Exciting times for Tesla if they can buy this company they will have even more lead on the competition. :purple



?? this: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/04/tesla-to-acquire-battery-company-maxwell-technolog.aspx :tweed :huh :huh :huh :huh :?
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby Dax » 17 Apr 2019, 06:59

DonDeeHippy wrote:lifepo4 batteries and the Tesla ones are both lithium ion battery but use different chemistries for their cathodes the Tesla powerwall uses yet another chemistry and would be a direct contender of the Lifepo4, ...…
Tesla has been trying to take over a company that has technology to make their batteries denser (less weight same power) and Maxwell have great solid state battery tech as well.... If it happens the vehicle's will be definitely be using the new tech, not sure if the power supply ones will get the treatment as well.I suppose if they can make the powerwalls smaller or more power for the same size I guess they might do it. Exciting times for Tesla if they can buy this company they will have even more lead on the competition. :purple


The tesla 3 uses LiNiCoAIO batteries uses lithium cobalt nickel and aluminium, extremely different to lifepo4, which is lithium iron phosphate, Tesla batteries are very unstable compared to lifepo4, that's why they have to have cooling systems, and many have exploded and caught fire, whilst lifepo4 are extremely hard to get hot and don't catch fire, not even when fully charged and exposed to flames.

Powerwalls use a slightly different chemistry LiNiMnCoO which includes cobalt nickel and manganese, also unstable when subjected to fast charging creating heat at high SOC. Sensible people use lifepo4 and many cars are starting to use it as well, the new chemistry of lithium graphene will again revolutionise battery technology and density, as well as being even more stable. When you add super capacitors, you can increase the range dramatically.
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby Bongalong » 17 Apr 2019, 13:01

I read a new scientist the other day that said they want to reduce how much soldiers carry in the field by making their armour out of bullet proof batteries.

I'd say there are going to be very major advances very shortly in battery tech as the world demands action on climate change with interest and the military is taking advantage of the timing of it all.

I wonder what the stockmarket will do.... :bike :bike
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Re: 50% New Electric Cars by 2030 without chargers????

Postby Dax » 17 Apr 2019, 13:45

Bongalong wrote:I read a new scientist the other day that said they want to reduce how much soldiers carry in the field by making their armour out of bullet proof batteries.

I'd say there are going to be very major advances very shortly in battery tech as the world demands action on climate change with interest and the military is taking advantage of the timing of it all.

I wonder what the stockmarket will do.... :bike :bike


The military already have wearable batteries, but they are Li-poly mostly and a bit dangerous in the field. From my understanding most military applications use lifepo4 because they are so stable, there is a big fight going on surrounding he new French build subs, Aus technicians want to use lifepo4, but the French want to put in nic-cad, which are way to heavy and nowhere near the quality or capacity of lifepo4, or other li chemistries.

LI-Graphene and super capacitors is the next step, unless they come up with some revolutionary energy storage system and that;s not really on the cards yet.
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