The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby Aussie » 18 Oct 2019, 16:43

There are an estimated 2+ million defensive uses of firearms every year.


Link...and not one from the NRA.
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DreamRyderX » 18 Oct 2019, 17:40

Aussie wrote:
There are an estimated 2+ million defensive uses of firearms every year.


Link...and not one from the NRA.


There are various citations quoted all over the net, but:

......A commonly cited 1995 study by Kleck and Gertz estimated that between 2.1 and 2.5 million DGUs occur in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[7][10].......


LINK: Lowest DGU estimate of 50,000 to 80,000 DGUs ...&... Highest DGU estimate 4,700,000 DGUs

Pick yer poison........I'll stick with a midpoint of 2,000,000+ that seems to be the most quoted figure......since 1995 most believe the Kleck numbers are probably the closest today.

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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby Aussie » 18 Oct 2019, 17:43

And the best you can come up with is something from 1995, and that too is an estimate.

......A commonly cited 1995 study by Kleck and Gertz estimated that between 2.1 and 2.5 million DGUs occur in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[7][10].......


Full of NRA shit.
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DreamRyderX » 18 Oct 2019, 17:51

Aussie wrote:And the best you can come up with is something from 1995, and that too is an estimate.

......A commonly cited 1995 study by Kleck and Gertz estimated that between 2.1 and 2.5 million DGUs occur in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[7][10].......


Full of NRA shit.


Ahhh, you didn't even have enough time to read it.......but that doesn't bother me......but, your personal bias is showing fella.....

Hey, everyone is entitled (even you) to a personal opinion .....bias based or not......
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby Aussie » 18 Oct 2019, 18:33

No, DRX....I read it all including this bit....you failed to mention.

Hemenway research

In 2000, Hemenway published a survey which found that "Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense";[30] also that year, he published another survey which found that "criminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use."[31] Both of these surveys argued that many defensive gun uses may not be in the best interests of society.[30][31] Also in 2000, Hemenway and his colleagues conducted a small survey that found that guns in the home were used more often to intimidate family members (13 respondents) than in self-defense (2 respondents). The same study stated that its results suggested that most self-defense gun uses did not occur in the home, and that non-gun weapons are used more often to thwart crime than guns are.[32] A later survey by Hemenway et al. that included 5,800 California adolescents found that about 0.3% of these adolescents reported having used a gun in self-defense, whereas, in the same study, 4% of those adolescents reported that someone had threatened them with a gun.[33] In a 2015 study co-authored with Sara Solnick, Hemenway analyzed data from the NCVS from 2007 to 2011 and identified only 127 instances of DGU.[34]


You are so full of NRA shit.
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DreamRyderX » 18 Oct 2019, 19:40

Aussie wrote:No, DRX....I read it all including this bit....you failed to mention.

Hemenway research

In 2000, Hemenway published a survey which found that "Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense";[30] also that year, he published another survey which found that "criminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use."[31] Both of these surveys argued that many defensive gun uses may not be in the best interests of society.[30][31] Also in 2000, Hemenway and his colleagues conducted a small survey that found that guns in the home were used more often to intimidate family members (13 respondents) than in self-defense (2 respondents). The same study stated that its results suggested that most self-defense gun uses did not occur in the home, and that non-gun weapons are used more often to thwart crime than guns are.[32] A later survey by Hemenway et al. that included 5,800 California adolescents found that about 0.3% of these adolescents reported having used a gun in self-defense, whereas, in the same study, 4% of those adolescents reported that someone had threatened them with a gun.[33] In a 2015 study co-authored with Sara Solnick, Hemenway analyzed data from the NCVS from 2007 to 2011 and identified only 127 instances of DGU.[34]


You are so full of NRA shit.


Again, you're still entitled to your own biased personal opinion............just your own 'second-hand at best' guess.....

But, as a card carrying NRA Life Member in good standing, & a regular contributor to the NRA's Institute of Legislative Action, I find most of what they publish, along with documents you don't have access to, are far more credible than the Anti-Gunner, Anti-Second Amendment, Leftist Extremist cheap hit pieces I've come across........after all, when push comes to shove.....the American People have the Right that the Leftists froth over.....We, the American People, have the Right to use the best means available for self-defense, while the Leftists are shovelin' shit against the tide trying to take away what the American People have, & will never relinquish.

PS.......JFYI......by the end of the first month of 2020, 2 more States will have become "Constitutional Carry" States......simply meaning that residents of those States will no longer require a State Permit to carry a concealed firearm......the US Constitution will be their sole Carry Permit......the government & courts are out of the picture.
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby Aussie » 18 Oct 2019, 19:45

But, as a card carrying NRA Life Member in good standing, & a regular contributor to the NRA's Institute of Legislative Action,......


There endeth the lesson. Bye.
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DreamRyderX » 18 Oct 2019, 19:49

Aussie wrote:
But, as a card carrying NRA Life Member in good standing, & a regular contributor to the NRA's Institute of Legislative Action,......


There endeth the lesson. Bye.


Ciao......stop by any time.....there so, so much more to glean.....
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DreamRyderX » 02 Nov 2019, 09:11

..


..........Court Knocks Out Pittsburgh Gun Control in NRA-Backed Case



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Source: NRA-ILA
Fairfax, Va. - The National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) today applauded a decision by the Allegheny Court of Common Pleas protecting the rights of law-abiding gun owners in Pennsylvania. In the NRA-backed case Anderson v. City of Pittsburgh, the court found that Pittsburgh's attempt to impose local gun control measures was a clear violation of state law.
“This is a huge victory for law-abiding gun owners and everyone who values freedom in the Keystone state,” said Jason Ouimet, executive director, NRA-ILA. “Cases like this underscore the peoples’ need for judges who will faithfully interpret the law in defense of their rights and liberties.”

At issue was a Pittsburgh restriction on so-called "high capacity" magazines. Pennsylvania, like 45 other states, has a preemption law restricting local governments from passing gun control measures that are more restrictive than state law.

Preemption laws protect law-abiding gun owners from dealing with a confusing patchwork of laws in a single state.

"We are grateful that the Allegheny Court of Common Pleas saw what is clear on the face of the statute, that the general assembly alone regulates firearms in Pennsylvania," said attorney Jonathan Goldstein with Goldstein Law Partners.

Earlier this month, NRA-backed firearm preemption cases in Washington and Montana voided similar unlawful local ordinances.

"This is a great day for law-abiding Pennsylvania gun owners. The NRA applauds this ruling and will continue defending our constitutional rights everywhere,” Ouimet concluded.




The Gun Rights of the American People Upheld & Protected........Now, & Forever! Image

...................................ImageGod Bless the NRA

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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby greggerypeccary » 03 Nov 2019, 10:17

"5 Killed, Several Injured in Shooting at Airbnb Halloween Party in California."

Just another day in fucked up America, where the citizens have more guns than sense.
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby johnsmith » 03 Nov 2019, 11:40

greggerypeccary wrote:"5 Killed, Several Injured in Shooting at Airbnb Halloween Party in California."

Just another day in fucked up America, where the citizens have more guns than sense.



was that the trick? or the treat?

hard to tell in the US of A
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby Bowerbird » 03 Nov 2019, 17:06

In case no one has posted this yet Jim Jeffries does the best summation of the Australian attitude to guns
Part 1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0
Part 2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4

He is right when he says we have a constitution but no one bothers to read it :bgrin
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby Bam » 03 Nov 2019, 19:36

DreamRyderX wrote:Image

You're not quoting the full text here. You're just quoting a part of it out of context and that is misleading.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The "right to keep and bear arms" isn't unconditional. It is meant to be "well regulated".
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DonDeeHippy » 04 Nov 2019, 04:27

Bam wrote:
DreamRyderX wrote:Image

You're not quoting the full text here. You're just quoting a part of it out of context and that is misleading.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The "right to keep and bear arms" isn't unconditional. It is meant to be "well regulated".

To true bam, don’t worry though rhyder doesn’t own a gun in Australia anyway :purple :purple
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Re: The Second Amendment, SCOTUS, Gun Law, & Gun Regulation

Postby DreamRyderX » 06 Nov 2019, 17:13

Bam wrote:
DreamRyderX wrote:Image

You're not quoting the full text here. You're just quoting a part of it out of context and that is misleading.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The "right to keep and bear arms" isn't unconditional. It is meant to be "well regulated".


Your opinion, & you are entitled to your personal opinion, but it's obvious that your personal opinion is probably derived from little, if any, US Constitutional knowledge, or knowledge of relevant American Revolutionary History (specifically between 1730 through 1820) regarding the issue of the US Constitution's Second Amendment.


The FIRST & ONLY time the US Supreme Court was ever petitioned to define the meaning, & original intent, of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution since the Amendments Ratification, was in 2008, in the DC vs Heller decision.

Prior to that 2008 decision, only inferior (lower courts...Federal, State, Local) had opinions remotely or indirectly regarding the Second Amendment, but it wasn't until 2008 did the petitioners to the US Supreme Court, the highest court in the United States, ask for 'clarification' regarding the historical meaning of the Right of Individual Americans to Keep & Bear Arms.......



In it's Majority Decision, The US Supreme Court held in DC vs Heller:

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms.

The Second Amendment contains two distinct clauses.......

The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Anti-federalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.

The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in State constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment's Ratification.

The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three State Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms.

Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion.




They defined the meaning, & the original intent of the Second Amendment, in their 2008 Heller decision. That finding is Law, & can only be changed by either Constitutional Amendment, offered in Congress, & if passed through by Congress, sent to the individual States, & ultimately ratified or rejected by the American People. The only other way the Constitutional Right of the American People to Keep & Bear Arms can be redefined is via a subsequent decision by a future Supreme Court that finds the prior court erred in 2008 & redefines the Second Amendment themselves.





Your bones, as well as mine, will be long gone to dust before either event takes place.

In over 225 years the US Constitution has been amended only 17 times (the first 10 Amendments were ratified as a group....en masse in 1791).


The American Founding Fathers.....those that Crafted the US Constitution......knew that the Constitution was not perfect, & might someday need to be revised/changed/amended, so they included a process to amend it. They purposefully made this process difficult, because they didn't want the Constitution changed at whim. Also, you will note, that because the USA is not now, & never was meant to be a Democracy, it takes far more than a mere majority to amend the US Constitution.

Over the past 225+ years there have been over 11,000 attempts to amend the US Constitution. It has only been done successfully 17 times.

Now, that said, the US Supreme Court....the Highest Court in the Land......has only visited the full interpretation of the Second Amendment but once.

The US Supreme Court was only been petitioned once to define the meaning, & original intent, of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution since it's Ratification. That was in 2008, in the DC vs Heller decision.

The Second Amendment contains two distinct clauses.....It's Prefatory Clause, & it's Operative Clause.

The Second Amendment does not give, decree, or grant any Right to the American People. It does specifically state what the government is not permitted to do.

The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms......it simply affirms, defines, & protects a pre-existing inalienable Right of the People.

I choose only to use & express the Operative Clause because it is the meat & potatoes of the Amendment......it affirms & protects the Right of the American People......& as it was to the US Supreme Court, it is to me, the vitally important part of the Amendment.......

What you, & probably tens of millions of Americans imagine the Second Amendment to mean.......means nothing more than individual personal opinions.

How the American Supreme Court defined the Second Amendment is LAW.....& their decision in this matter is final, & not subject to appeal.

The Peoples only recourse would be through a decision of a future US Supreme Court that would have to find the Court's 2008 decision in Heller in error, or via a Constitutional Amendment, ultimately placed in the hands of the American People, encompassing a 3/4's Majority, or 38 of the 50 US States, for final ratification.






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