White Americans have a lot to atone for in their violent racist oppression of blacks

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
I'd accept that here. I can't tell you the number of times I've been called a wog. Even by immigrants who were born overseas like Soren :stoopid

Aside from Gordy, do you find you are called a wog much by younger generations? I got the feeling from society at large that we pretty much stopped caring about Italians and Greeks being amongst us from gen X on. I know the older generations are just lost to reason. I mean, Cods even swear Italians aren't white. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

I just know that when i was a kid, there was a real war between mainstream Australia and those of Mediterranean background. To my mind, it stopped pretty suddenly with the advent of satirical tv. I've often wondered that if tv wasn't dying in the arse, we'd have a few more shows like those clever guys pulled off in the '80s and '90s. There was a show on channel 9 ... Habib something ... but i don't know how successful it was.

It seems that with most of us getting our content from our own personal echo-chamber on the internet, there's less exposure to diversity and it's creating these nasty little enclaves.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Aside from Gordy, do you find you are called a wog much by younger generations?
No, not by the younger generation so much, it happens far less than it used to although it does still come up every now and then.

I have told my boys that they're wogs ........ from their mothers side:smirk
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Mothra, four things.

Never make the mistake that sincere racists and cultural and racial supremacists are all stupid. The more dangerous ones are a far cry from that.
ONE. I don't remember making or implying this assumption. Can you point out where I have said, ".. that sincere racists and cultural and racial supremacists are all stupid."? Maybe you can explain just how intelligence is relevant to the practices and messages of either, "sincere racists", or the "cultural and racial supremacists."? I DO remember saying, "Knuckle-dragging, ignorant racial bigots, could never hold a decent conversation". Which I qualified with, "..without becoming defensive, irrational, or offensive.". And, I do stand by that comment. And, I also believe, that the actions, beliefs, and practices of ALL racists and White Supremacists ARE, IMHO stupid. Why? Because nobody chooses their parents, place of birth, or their gender. NO ONE!! No matter how many straw man you create. Or, try to conflate clearly Racist remarks, down to just "gaudy" remarks. "Coon" may be accepted here in Australia, and not in the US. But it is still a derogatory racist term.

Secondly, hypersensitive, yes. To feel the need to give us all a summary of slavery, which we are all familiar with thanks very much, because someone uses nomenclature you don't approve of? Come on now.
TWO. The last time I checked, this thread is about White atonement for the violent racist oppression of Blacks. If you don't want to hear, or feel offended by the "summary" of the White atrocities of the past(that is still continuing today), then with all due respect, simply go to another thread. And, exactly who is the "us" that you are referring to? Those who disagree? The racial "nomenclature" that you are referring to, was always meant to be a derogatory label. And, was one of the names given to Black Americans by their slave owners. So, yes, I do disapprove of any color label(not nomenclature) as being acceptable to describe one's' race. Unless, you think that all people you meet, should be addressed as a color? Including their children. Why can't you just ask them their names?

The way to open thoughtful recourse is to not knee-jerk into slavery when someone uses the incorrect pronoun. We all know there are problematic uses of such pronouns. Furthermore, as this thread has demonstrated, we are not all in agreement about what is offensive and what is not. Or was and is no longer. These wheels turn fast.
THREE. This is NOT a thread on the use of acceptable adjectives(not pronouns), used to describe or to indicate a person's race. Calling anyone anything other than their name, race, or nationality is offensive. IMHO. It is racially divisive, and carry the obvious derogatory connotations(poor, ignorant, ugly, criminal, dangerous, backward, immoral, etc.), associated with that race. "Labels are powerful. They can express or reinforce a positive social identity, and they can also activate hostility.". Since you believe that we are in disagreement on what we consider as being racially offensive, maybe you can posite a socially positive rationale for making all races color-specific?


So, often lost me, listens and learns ... and tries not offend. If i fail to not offend, i can only hope justification of my intent pardons me. I also hope i learn. Furthermore, i hope someone doesn't feel the need to bring up slavery to rub my nose in it.
FOUR. I totally agree. Hence why the example of my Black American friend. This White Australian saw no difference between a Black American, and a Black Aboriginal. They all looked the same color, and therefore, just another "boong" to him. Based entirely on color. Unfortunately, racism and discrimination is still ongoing today. Discrimination still exist throughout our criminal justice system. It is also institutionalized in our housing, education and employment practices. Are you saying that these practices should just go quietly unnoticed? Or, that POC should just stop talking about it?

Since this is a thread about White atonement, I think that the WHY, and the WHAT should continue to be mentioned. Especially, since discrimination based on race still exists in society today. And, no matter how many people may get the message, there will always be those that will just ignore it. And judging by the growing number of hate groups in America, I'd say a lot of White Americans ARE ignoring the message. They only want to reclaim THEIR land back from the minorities and the Jews.

So, hypersensitive? Absolutely. But also absolutely justified. Blacks(and Asians) do not have the luxury of anonymity like Whites. Whites, at least have to open their mouths before they can be judged. No matter what their nationality is. Because of their color(and features), Blacks(and Asians) are judged before they can open their mouths. By reinforcing colors, Whites will only reinforce their already subconscious prejudices. IMHO. This is unacceptable, and always offensive.

I have told my boys that they're wogs ........ from their mothers side
I rest my case!!
 
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Shellandshilo1956

Active member
That was blaming your wife for your children's racial and social condition.
He never attacks my points, he just snipes, denies, and make silly snide remarks. Can you imagine the mother of a Black and White relationship, telling her own children that "they are "coons", but only on your father's side". Clearly he is not aware of how his remarks could affect the child's' self-esteem and self-identity. And, clearly "wogs" IS a derogatory and offensive term, which also means "non-White Australian.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
you had a point? I wish you'd get to it.

not quite ..
You wouldn't know a point, even if you tripped over one. The term "WOG" was originally an almost inconceivably offensive term of abuse, for Blacks and Asians in Britain. It then migrated to Australia, and then a strange thing happened. "Acropolis Now", "The Wog Boy", and "The Comedy Company", have sensationalized the term to become acceptable to many. Even in the Greek, Lebanese, Croatian and Italian communities. But the term itself is still divisive and offensive("move your wog arse."), and certainly not something I would identify my children as.


Now your turn! Or should we consider everything out of your mouth, as only a joke?
 

Texan

Active member
Sometimes I think I speak a completely different language from the rest of you. I never heard the term "wog" until this thread. That explains how I can say black, white, or mixed race as a descriptor and you may think i have racist intentions, when the truth is that I love my family and would never slur them. The obvious exception is my wife, who will not be my wife much longer. She has earned any insult I want to give her.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Mothra, four things.



ONE. I don't remember making or implying this assumption. Can you point out where I have said, ".. that sincere racists and cultural and racial supremacists are all stupid."? Maybe you can explain just how intelligence is relevant to the practices and messages of either, "sincere racists", or the "cultural and racial supremacists."? I DO remember saying, "Knuckle-dragging, ignorant racial bigots, could never hold a decent conversation". Which I qualified with, "..without becoming defensive, irrational, or offensive.". And, I do stand by that comment. And, I also believe, that the actions, beliefs, and practices of ALL racists and White Supremacists ARE, IMHO stupid. Why? Because nobody chooses their parents, place of birth, or their gender. NO ONE!! No matter how many straw man you create. Or, try to conflate clearly Racist remarks, down to just "gaudy" remarks. "Coon" may be accepted here in Australia, and not in the US. But it is still a derogatory racist term.



TWO. The last time I checked, this thread is about White atonement for the violent racist oppression of Blacks. If you don't want to hear, or feel offended by the "summary" of the White atrocities of the past(that is still continuing today), then with all due respect, simply go to another thread. And, exactly who is the "us" that you are referring to? Those who disagree? The racial "nomenclature" that you are referring to, was always meant to be a derogatory label. And, was one of the names given to Black Americans by their slave owners. So, yes, I do disapprove of any color label(not nomenclature) as being acceptable to describe one's' race. Unless, you think that all people you meet, should be addressed as a color? Including their children. Why can't you just ask them their names?



THREE. This is NOT a thread on the use of acceptable adjectives(not pronouns), used to describe or to indicate a person's race. Calling anyone anything other than their name, race, or nationality is offensive. IMHO. It is racially divisive, and carry the obvious derogatory connotations(poor, ignorant, ugly, criminal, dangerous, backward, immoral, etc.), associated with that race. "Labels are powerful. They can express or reinforce a positive social identity, and they can also activate hostility.". Since you believe that we are in disagreement on what we consider as being racially offensive, maybe you can posite a socially positive rationale for making all races color-specific?




FOUR. I totally agree. Hence why the example of my Black American friend. This White Australian saw no difference between a Black American, and a Black Aboriginal. They all looked the same color, and therefore, just another "boong" to him. Based entirely on color. Unfortunately, racism and discrimination is still ongoing today. Discrimination still exist throughout our criminal justice system. It is also institutionalized in our housing, education and employment practices. Are you saying that these practices should just go quietly unnoticed? Or, that POC should just stop talking about it?

Since this is a thread about White atonement, I think that the WHY, and the WHAT should continue to be mentioned. Especially, since disclinations based on race still exists in society today. And, no matter how many people may get the message, there will always be those that will just ignore it. And judging by the growing number of hate groups in America, I'd say a lot of White Americans ARE ignoring the message. They only want to reclaim THEIR land back from the minorities and the Jews.

So, hypersensitive? Absolutely. But also absolutely justified. Blacks(and Asians) do not have the luxury of anonymity like Whites. Whites, at least have to open their mouths before they can be judged. No matter what their nationality is. Because of their color(and features), Blacks(and Asians) are judged before they can open their mouths. By reinforcing colors, Whites will only reinforce their already subconscious prejudices. IMHO. This is unacceptable, and always offensive.



I rest my case!!

Shell, have you considered making your responses a little more succinct? Especially when you're endlessly repeating yourself. My eyes kinda glazed over there man.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Sometimes I think I speak a completely different language from the rest of you. I never heard the term "wog" until this thread. That explains how I can say black, white, or mixed race as a descriptor and you may think i have racist intentions, when the truth is that I love my family and would never slur them. The obvious exception is my wife, who will not be my wife much longer. She has earned any insult I want to give her.

In the middle part of last century, there was tremendous prejudice against people with Italian and Greek heritage in this country. It was feral. I grew up on the very tail-end of it but i saw enough of it to turn my stomach.

And i don't think anyone thinks you have racist intentions, Texan. Rather the use of certain descriptors have inherent racial undertones. And as you can see, we don't all agree on this. This is why i prefer to take the route of letting people tell me how they wish to be referred to, if i need to refer to them at all. Thus i have learned that people have reclaimed mixed race. I wouldn't use it myself but i now know not to necessarily bristle at it.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
I have told my boys that they're wogs ........ from their mothers side:smirk
Well from all reports, they seem like bright boys so they'll be proud of manifestations of their mother in them. Lord only knows they've probably been scandalised already by the alternative.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Sometimes I think I speak a completely different language from the rest of you. I never heard the term "wog" until this thread. That explains how I can say black, white, or mixed race as a descriptor and you may think i have racist intentions, when the truth is that I love my family and would never slur them. The obvious exception is my wife, who will not be my wife much longer. She has earned any insult I want to give her.
No texan, there is nothing wrong with your english, and we do speak the same language. Black, White, and Mixed Race are used here, and mean the same. I also never heard of "wog" until after I arrived in Australia.

Australia actually had a "White Australian Policy", which forbid non-European, especially Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Africans, from immigrating to Australia. It was completely stopped in the '75 by the passing of the Racial Discrimination Act. This made all racially based selection criteria illegal. Many people today wish for the return of that policy. And, along came Pauline Hanson.


Australians were also slave owners as well.

https://www.creativespirits.info/ab...australia-has-a-history-of-aboriginal-slavery

Australian settlers in Tasmania, wiped out all the native Aboriginals living there, during the "Black Wars".

Then there was the "Stolen Generation". This was a federal and state government legislative act, that allowed agencies the right to remove the children of Australian and Torres Strait Island Aboriginals, from their mothers.


It seems to me, that races are all the same when if comes to power and privilege.

It is still my opinion, that identifying people as a color, should always remain "in-house".
 

Texan

Active member
In the middle part of last century, there was tremendous prejudice against people with Italian and Greek heritage in this country. It was feral. I grew up on the very tail-end of it but i saw enough of it to turn my stomach.

And i don't think anyone thinks you have racist intentions, Texan. Rather the use of certain descriptors have inherent racial undertones. And as you can see, we don't all agree on this. This is why i prefer to take the route of letting people tell me how they wish to be referred to, if i need to refer to them at all. Thus i have learned that people have reclaimed mixed race. I wouldn't use it myself but i now know not to necessarily bristle at it.
My motto is to treat everybody with respect until they prove that they deserve otherwise.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
My motto is to treat everybody with respect until they prove that they deserve otherwise.

An admirable quality. I try to live like that myself.

But you know what? I reckon if you asked a white supremacist if they try to live by that, they'd say yes. It's just they've pre-judged a whole bunch of people. I reckon most of them are lovely to their Grans and help their neighbours and let people in front of them in line and all sorts of lovely stuff.

I mean, how often do we hear, "He seemed like such a nice guy" after a nasty incident? At least, we hear that a lot in Australia. May be different over there. You've got guns and stuff.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that we need to stop demonising people for doing or saying the wrong thing AND we all need to second guess ourselves in what we are doing and saying. Personal mottos aren't enough. We need to push ourselves beyond that.
 

Squire

Active member
The expression 'mixed race' is a less hostile way for white supremacists to denounce a person as 'non-white'.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Well from all reports, they seem like bright boys so they'll be proud of manifestations of their mother in them. Lord only knows they've probably been scandalised already by the alternative.
They're smarter then shell:ROFL1
 
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