Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
None, but it could be argued that the reason that none were overwhelmed is because of the strict lockdown measures.
It can also be argued that the majority of people who felt sick, voluntarily stayed at home to recover. It can be argued that the more people who are infected and recover, the less people the virus can fully infect. It can be argued statistically, that the lockdown itself was the cause of many times more people becoming infected and dying from the virus. It could also be argued that having hot chicken for lunch, will keep this virus at bay. How about this new research finding. That before this pandemic began, the SARS-CoV-2 virus had already visited us, and given at least a 5th of us antibodies against this pathogen. Finally, this virus can be benign in some people, and never reach the lungs.


Unfortunately, all of these reasons could have some merits(or none), regarding why Australian hospitals have not been overwhelmed. They are also just as valid as having strict lockdown measures.

Without providing any direct evidence, or verifiable stats, these can all be just fallacious assumptions.

Can you rephrase?
I was saying, that if the government is so concerned that the hospitals would be overwhelmed, then shouldn't they have use their emergency resources to address their fears?

Any disease, or any disease with the same level of transmissibility?
What I said was, "Without facts, there is only speculation and supposition. We could make this same claim for any disease. Therefore, without facts or evidence, we could make any claim we want about ANY DISEASE we want.

There are 2 major differences between the SARS-CoV-2 virus. It was a mutation version of the SARS virus. This mutation allowed it to withstand our higher core body temperature. Therefore, it could replicate within the lung tissues as well as within the upper respiratory tissues. Regarding transmissibility, the normal flu virus can infect upt to 3 people. The SARS-CoV-2 virus can infect up to 4-5 people


It is ironic that for all coronaviruses, sunlight and UV radiation would quickly destroy them. Yet our genius of a plan, is to herd everyone in places at room temperature. The perfect temperature for these viruses to survive longer to infect more people. Go figure!!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I know 3 people who have died with covid. Two were in their 60s and obese with diabetes. The third was 72 with a heart transplant 9 years ago. I know dozens of others who have had covid and they are all fine. Many of them have other health issues as well. For a healthy, young person this disease is only a risk to their vulnerable family members. Quarantine and get on with your life.
My condolences for your losses. I was kinda speaking to the Australians here, because there are so fewer deaths and infections. It would be interesting to know, if they died WITH the disease, or FROM the disease? Because viruses do not kill their hosts. What I respect in the US, is that people are NOT afraid to speak their minds. They clearly do not want the Government interfering in their private lives. Let alone telling them what to do. Even the mandatory wearing of masks in open public(other than on mass transit systems), has mostly been lifted. Even politicians have called these restrictions, "a bridge too far". Americans treasure their freedoms much more than Australians do. Americans take the time to do the research to find the truth. Australians simply trust whatever they are told by children.


I agree that all people in the high risk categories should take whatever precautions they think is necessary. But this must be voluntary. And, by choice.The Australian government doesn't care if you have been vaccinated, tested negative, have already recovered, or have your own antibodies to the virus. It only cares about its own agenda, and will milk this opportunity for years. Every 3 months it can keep reusing the millions in renewable emergency funds.
 

chris155au

Active member
I know 3 people who have died with covid.
With 613 thousand dead in a country with 328 million people,
that would surely be VERY unusual to know three people who have died. The vast majority of people wouldn't even know ONE person, let alone three! It's even LESS likely for any of us here in Australia to know anyone who has died from COVID.
 

chris155au

Active member
It can also be argued that the majority of people who felt sick, voluntarily stayed at home to recover.
Yeah, but not before spreading it around during their asymptomatic period.

It can be argued that the more people who are infected and recover, the less people the virus can fully infect.
Yeah, natural herd immunity, right?

It can be argued statistically, that the lockdown itself was the cause of many times more people becoming infected and dying from the virus.
What's the evidence for that?

I was saying, that if the government is so concerned that the hospitals would be overwhelmed, then shouldn't they have use their emergency resources to address their fears?
What sort of "emergency resources" would prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed?

There are 2 major differences between the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
2 major differences between it and which other virus or viruses?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Had you also explained WHY I was arguing against the lockdown,

for what purpose? Did you forget your own reasons? Or do you think others can't read your post? There is no need for me to repeat all your crap every time I respond to something on it. It's bad enough most people have to read it once.
 
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johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
NO! Each person vaccinates for themself! The way to "protect everyone" is for each person to vaccinate for themselves!
I don't agree ... whilst primarily we vaccinate for ourselves yes, the end goal is herd immunity. So that we don't just protect ourselves but also those most vulnerable. Until then Covid's just going to keep flaring up
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Yes and if they choose to NOT get the "added insurance", that's on THEM, right?
Not really ... their decision affects everyone.

My family is vaccinated for whooping couch, has been since before my kids were born. But because some nincompoops from Byron Bay think being an anti vaxer is cool, both my wife and my oldest caught it. My wife so badly she bruised her ribs with her coughing. My wife was about 35 at the time .... what would happen if that was an 80 yr old who caught it and was coughing that hard they bruised their ribs?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
I have no idea what you are talking about, or the goal posts you are changing again. What I am talking about is not just my problem(another straw man). In fact, thousands of other Australians have this same problem, and feel the same way. Freedom of movement, and freedom of choice. What are these irrelevant facts that don't address the point you were making? And, if you think that the lockdown is saving us all from a viral apocalypse, then please, what evidence can you deposit that can clearly demonstrate any direct causal link?

Convoluted? Is the effectiveness of wearing masks relevant to this lockdown? How about trying to keep 26M people 2 meters apart? How about downloading locator apps, or mobile QR swipes? How about comparing the normal viral cycle expected for any viral pathogen within any population, and this pathogen? Is the mortality and infection rates relevant? How about the the size of the virus to the pore size of masks? How about the fact that a person can be infected via the eyes? Finally, the glaring importance of those in the population who are at high risk, and the true number of actual cases minus the recoveries? Are any of these facts relevant to a lockdown?

Even the government knows that even a moron might begin to question locking down millions of people, just because a few people were infected with a 98.7%+ survivable virus. Or, a 100% survivability rate for those NOT in any of the high risk groups. Exactly how many people on this forum personally know(not heard or told) of anyone who have died directly from the complications of Covid-19?

How about if we just lockdown and quarantine all those in the high risk groups? For their own safety, of course!!

blah blah blah ... you've been making the same arguments since covid started. Change th ebloody record.
 

chris155au

Active member
Not really ... their decision affects everyone.

My family is vaccinated for whooping couch, has been since before my kids were born. But because some nincompoops from Byron Bay think being an anti vaxer is cool, both my wife and my oldest caught it. My wife so badly she bruised her ribs with her coughing. My wife was about 35 at the time .... what would happen if that was an 80 yr old who caught it and was coughing that hard they bruised their ribs?
So your wife and kid caught it even though they were vaccinated? Had it expired, or would this have been what we call a 'breakthrough infection?'
 

chris155au

Active member
I don't agree ... whilst primarily we vaccinate for ourselves yes, the end goal is herd immunity. So that we don't just protect ourselves but also those most vulnerable. Until then Covid's just going to keep flaring up
Why can't "those most vulnerable" get the vaccine?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
So your wife and kid caught it even though they were vaccinated? Had it expired, or would this have been what we call a 'breakthrough infection?'
couldn't have expired, we'd topped up our vacinne only 2 yrs earlier when the kid was born ... they last a lot longer than that
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Why can't "those most vulnerable" get the vaccine?
there's that 'going around in circles again'


those that are dependent on others for starters, either due to age, language restrictions, or disabilities.... those that don't have the resources to act, also those that don't have the mental capacity to understand the risks ... there are lots of people out there that need help
 

chris155au

Active member
those that are dependent on others for starters, either due to age, language restrictions, or disabilities.... those that don't have the resources to act, also those that don't have the mental capacity to understand the risks ... there are lots of people out there that need help
Then they should get the help that they need! Why does this mean that people who do not wish to get vaccinated should be required to get vaccinated?
 
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