Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

chris155au

Active member
what trip? i live 45 minutes from byron ... gold coasters move back and fourth all the time 9pr covid)
For some reason I got it in my head that you were holidaying in Byron. So why do you tell this story in the context of a vaccine mandate? I assume that you're not arguing that Australia should've always had a mandate for the whooping cough vaccine.
 

chris155au

Active member
you asked who the vulnerable were ....

I'm not sure I'm in favour of a mandate ... but i do understand why they'd consider it
Person A is an unnvaccinated person who has had the chance to get a vaccine. They get COVID from Person B who is also an unnvaccinated person who has had the chance to get a vaccine. Who is responsible for person A getting infected?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Person A is an unnvaccinated person who has had the chance to get a vaccine. They get COVID from Person B who is also an unnvaccinated person who has had the chance to get a vaccine. Who is responsible for person A getting infected?
both are equally responsible
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
For some reason I got it in my head that you were holidaying in Byron. So why do you tell this story in the context of a vaccine mandate? I assume that you're not arguing that Australia should've always had a mandate for the whooping cough vaccine.
I told this story to show you that an unvacinated persons decision affects more than just them
 

Texan

Active member
With 613 thousand dead in a country with 328 million people,
that would surely be VERY unusual to know three people who have died. The vast majority of people wouldn't even know ONE person, let alone three! It's even LESS likely for any of us here in Australia to know anyone who has died from COVID.
I know hundreds of people, as do most Americans.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
2 major differences between it and which other virus or viruses?
The flu virus(influenza A & B) and the rhinovirus. All are restricted to the upper respiratory tracts. They don't survive in the lungs for very long.

Yeah, but not before spreading it around during their asymptomatic period.
This in itself is a contradiction. If a person is asymptomatic then how do they actually spread/transmit this virus? They aren't coughing, sneezing, expectorating, or shedding the virus. I'm not saying that it is impossible for asymptomatic people to spread/transmit the virus. I'm saying that there is very little evidence to suggest that they do. Or, evidence that can demonstrate the mechanism of HOW they CAN infect others. So what is the evidence to suggest that asymptomatic victims are spreading this virus during their asymptomatic period?

What sort of "emergency resources" would prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed?
Provide additional funding for more ICU beds. Provide more funding for educational materials for the public. Provide more funding for additional oxygen and other life support equipment. Provide more funding for more testing facilities, for anyone who wants to be tested. Provide more funding for extra medical staff, and other support staff members. Provide more funding for more emergency transport vehicles, with extra emergency equipment. These are just some of the additional actions the government could provide, to reduce the chances that hospitals would be overwhelmed. IMHO

What's the evidence for that?
The 1st case of Covid-19 was on Jan. 25th, 2020. The lockdowns began on the 23rd of March, 2020. Before the lockdowns started, the total number of active cases of Covid-19 in Australia was 1,609, with only 7 deaths. All from people in the high risk category. Twelve days later(April 4th, 2020), after the lockdown was in place, the number of active cases jumped to 5,050 with 20 more deaths. By August 11th, 2020, the number of cases reached 21,713(I don't want to add the tally of additional deaths over 129 days). Clearly, a case could be made that the lockdown had little, if any effect on the rise and fall of the number of people infected. If it had, we would at least be seeing some artificial flattening of the curve. We should NOT be seeing any peaks.


Again, my comment was that we COULD make a case that the lockdown is ineffective, or just made things worse. This doesn't mean that the case is valid or invalid. Scientists also know, that ultraviolet radiation and sunlight kills viruses quickly. So what do we do? We tell people to get out of the sunlight, and force them into room-temperature dwellings with poor ventilation. Which is the perfect environment for spreading any virus. This was clearly a recipe for disaster. This population density case could also be made. So, lets see what the evidence is, that directly links the rate of infections to the lockdown measures?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Well you simply have no idea that the person who infected your wife and kid was unvaccinated.
at the time there was an outbreak of whooping couch on the GC which had been sourced back to the anti vaxers in byron, whether my wife and son got it directly from them, or from someone else they had passed it onto is irrelevant to the point I'm making.
 

chris155au

Active member
at the time there was an outbreak of whooping couch on the GC which had been sourced back to the anti vaxers in byron, whether my wife and son got it directly from them, or from someone else they had passed it onto is irrelevant to the point I'm making.
So you are not having a go at people who are unvaccinated against whopping cough?
 

chris155au

Active member
This in itself is a contradiction. If a person is asymptomatic then how do they actually spread/transmit this virus? They aren't coughing, sneezing, expectorating, or shedding the virus. I'm not saying that it is impossible for asymptomatic people to spread/transmit the virus. I'm saying that there is very little evidence to suggest that they do. Or, evidence that can demonstrate the mechanism of HOW they CAN infect others. So what is the evidence to suggest that asymptomatic victims are spreading this virus during their asymptomatic period?
Well I always thought that people could cough and sneeze without being infected with a virus.

The 1st case of Covid-19 was on Jan. 25th, 2020. The lockdowns began on the 23rd of March, 2020. Before the lockdowns started, the total number of active cases of Covid-19 in Australia was 1,609, with only 7 deaths. All from people in the high risk category. Twelve days later(April 4th, 2020), after the lockdown was in place, the number of active cases jumped to 5,050 with 20 more deaths. By August 11th, 2020, the number of cases reached 21,713(I don't want to add the tally of additional deaths over 129 days). Clearly, a case could be made that the lockdown had little, if any effect on the rise and fall of the number of people infected. If it had, we would at least be seeing some artificial flattening of the curve. We should NOT be seeing any peaks.
I know, but what do you make of the success that Victoria had with an aggressive lockdown which crushed the case numbers?

Scientists also know, that ultraviolet radiation and sunlight kills viruses quickly. So what do we do? We tell people to get out of the sunlight, and force them into room-temperature dwellings with poor ventilation. Which is the perfect environment for spreading any virus.
Which is why, as I understand, Florida is being smashed right now with cases. Due to the insane heat, everyone is staying indoors. But of course the left and the media (but I repeat myself) call Governor DeSantis an evil vicious murderer! :ROFL1
 

chris155au

Active member
I know hundreds of people, as do most Americans.
Yeah, but even still - 613 thousand dead in a country with 328 million people. It would surely be VERY unusual to know three people who have died. The vast majority of people wouldn't even know ONE person, let alone three!
 

chris155au

Active member
you could just go back and read your original question if the reason for my post is a concern for you
Just as long as you're not saying that it's wrong for people to not get a whooping cough vaccine. It doesn't appear as though you are, which is good!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Well I always thought that people could cough and sneeze without being infected with a virus.
People can cough if there is a chicken bone in their throat, or sneeze if flour is thrown in their face. So yes, being infected by a virus is NOT the only prerequisite for coughing and sneezing. Nor, has anyone suggested that it is.

We were talking specifically about asymptomatic people who are infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. What is the evidence, that suggest asymptomatic carriers have infected others? What is the mechanism that can explain how asymptomatic carriers can transmit the virus? Both are unclear, but certainly not impossible.

I know, but what do you make of the success that Victoria had with an aggressive lockdown which crushed the case numbers?
There have been 20,955 total cases of Covid-19 in Victoria. There have been 20,036 people who have recovered from Covid-19, naturally. They have formed their own antibodies against this disease. There have also been 820 people who have died from complications of the disease. This means that there is 99 active cases of Covid-19 still in a population of 6.8M people. This means that anyone infected with this disease, has a 96.1% chance of recovering anyway.

Victoria is the second most densely populated state in Australia. In reality, the virus simply does what it has always done. As it infects more and more people, it will reach a peak where less and less people CAN become fully infected. This is the exact pattern that we see in Victoria, and all other states. It is typical that the government needs to take credit for what is really, just the natural cycle of any virus.

Politically, those who govern will use the media to spin whatever success they want to manufacture. If the people don't follow the restrictions, then it is the people's fault the virus is spreading. If the virus is not spreading, then it is because of the government's interventions. Always a win-win. Does the media mention that less than 1% of all those tested are positive for covid-19? This is NOT a viral apocalypse. Just look at the facts/stats, and think.

Aggressive lockdown? We are talking about a microorganism 3 times smaller than the smallest pore size on any masks. An airborne microorganism smaller than visible light. We are talking about keeping 6.7M 2 meters apart. It is simply a wishful assumption, that we can have any effect on the spread of this virus. It will behave in any biological population, as any virus would behave. This is exactly what we are seeing. Unfortunately, this is NOT what we are being told.

Which is why, as I understand, Florida is being smashed right now with cases. Due to the insane heat, everyone is staying indoors. But of course the left and the media (but I repeat myself) call Governor DeSantis an evil vicious murderer
Exactly. Everything that I predicted would happen, is happening. Now, the government is using the lockdown as a bargaining chip. Everyone must be tested, or else the lockdowns will continue indefinitely. Everyone must be vaccinated(even those who have recovered), or the lockdown continues indefinitely. Anyone who leaves the country must have a proof of vaccination ID card. Now the government is trying to stop e-business, and internet orders. Products from overseas might be infected. I guess shaming non-compliant Australians weren't working. Why are only the numbers of infected mentioned? Not, the number of recoveries.

As I've said before, how far can these lunatics go before people wake up? Even the US doesn't tell its citizens to dob on other citizens. Or, send cops to your home to fine and threaten you for not keeping 2 meters apart, or not wearing a mask. This is just insanity made to sound normal.
 

Texan

Active member
I think anti vaxers should be shot.
Does that clarify my position for you?
I've taken dozens of vaccines and have no problem with them. I do have a problem with people wanting to force me to get experimental shots for a virus I've already had. And I actually do carry a gun, but I don't threaten people for disagreeing with me. Its a Kimber.
 
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